U.S. vs. Panama 10/7 (WWCQ) pre/pbp/post

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by Semblance17, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. Semblance17

    Semblance17 Member+

    United States
    Apr 27, 2013
    Lighthouse Point, FL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #101 Semblance17, Oct 7, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
    Exactly. But it's infinitely preferable to have those types of misses in a game like this [in which there are substantially no direct consequences] than to make those mistakes in a closer, higher-stakes game in which chances are fewer and farther between. This is, of course, with the assumption in place that the players individually and the team collectively learn from the missed opportunities.
     
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  2. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    In a side note, I find it interesting that Ellis choice Mathias over Hinkle to be a practice player for WCQ. If as we kept hearing Ellis nor the other players have a problem with Hinkle and there wouldn't be any interaction with the fans, why not choose the outside back who clearly had the better NWSL playoff run? Does Ellis really consider Mathias better than Hinkle?
     
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  3. Knight1Rider

    Knight1Rider Member

    Arsenal
    United States
    Oct 5, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly, and it's not just Mathias. Hinkle is better than Short as well.
     
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  4. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Haven't actually seen this match yet; just finished watching Canada Jamaica and came by to say DON"T underestimate the Reggae Girlz. They are athletes, rhey have a couple people who can run, they are reasonably fit, they are good in the air and they play defense. They were one foolish clear and one lapse in concentration from a 0-0 result against Canada.

    Canada were admittedly very rusty at the start, but the muscle memory took over after fifteen or twenty minutes. But still, but for Prince converting both errors, the Islanders might have pulled the result despite having no chance to run any offense beyond a couple of brief counters.
     
  5. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    I've said on a few occasions that Dunn would be better at that position than Pugh.
     
  6. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    hinkle may be our best left back (altho i’m really liking what dunn is doing in that spot) and probably should be on the team if they can work out the sociological, cultural, and interpersonal logistics.

    but matthias & hinkle may not be competing for the same position.

    i don’t think they're thought of as obs who can play on both sides like dunn, o'hara, and short. i think each is considered a one side only ob, like sonnett.

    matthias may also be in their sights because she has also been a forward for many years, & they do preach flexibility.
     
  7. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    #107 luvdagame, Oct 8, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
    …kinda late to expect a leopard to change spots, some would say.

    with every missed shot she may be erasing another letter of her name from the wc roster.

    if she were a top player/scorer on the team they might cut her some slack (it's always a bit unfair that way), but she's a second team player now. mcdonald, williams et al are knocking on the door.
     
  8. BlueCrimson

    BlueCrimson Member+

    North Carolina Courage
    United States
    Nov 21, 2012
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They were good in their first game. Assuming they qualify for the semifinal, how fit will they be after 3 games? I'm guessing not very fit.

    But having said that, they were clearly the best team in the Caribbean regional qualification, which is why I laughed when a number of people were tipping T&T to potentially make another semifinal appearance.
     
  9. jackdoggy

    jackdoggy Member+

    May 16, 2014
    Big D
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Buuuuuuuut maybe less effective in getting back to stop the counterattack.
     
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  10. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    #110 Cannons, Oct 8, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
    I watched some of the game....The thing that jumped out at me was the number of chances missed. Any combination of players could have won this game but they wasted a high number of chances. Next one is even easier. Clear the bench for that one .
     
  11. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    They already cleared the bench for the match against Panama, everyone has now played real minutes. If anyone has a knock they should be rested but they also should play many/most of the starters to be sure they are sharp for the semis.
     
  12. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Congrats to Ellis for showing some minimal bravery and sitting all her best players. I had to wonder if she could do it as she plays Morgan, Ertz, Horan, Rapinoe in every meaningless Friendly for major minutes. But in a real game where there were stakes, she didn't. Yes, yes, it was Panama. But the USA has had slip ups before. If Lloyd wasn't there to finish, this could have been 1-0, 2-1.

    Personally, I would have played the best this game and then sat everyone against T&T in what is a meaningless game. She is kind of in a pickle as now; does she not play her best players for a week going into the most important game, or play them in a dead rubber match? So, while Ellis was brave, she wasn't particularly strategic. But maybe a week between games is not important.

    First Heath and now Pugh seemed to play slower and less effectively on the right wing. Maybe that is just how good Rapinoe is or maybe the way the midfield comes forward, the USA is just set up to play combos on the left and the right is where the winger will need to beat someone 1 v 2. Maybe O'Hara fills in and allows for the combos and when Sonnet is in it just doesn't work as well.

    Mace had two plays to make and made one. She got completely caught out on the other. But mostly it was just pass the ball to Dahlkemper or pick up the rolling ball 40 yards from your goal.

    Short is not really that good, I agree with everyone. Whatever they say publicly, Hinkle is a giant distraction on and off the field. When a team is playing as well as the USWNT has been playing, you don't go out of your way to find players that will cause problems.
     
  13. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    If Lloyd had finished more of her attempts, it might have been 10-0
     
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  14. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    At that WC, she was effectively an attacking mid. Rapinoe covered back for her constantly (by design). Rapinoe wasn't the goal scorer then that she is now. So, I don't think we would make that trade now (Kling playing up, for Pino playing back), thought we did happily then.

    And, neither of them Pino Kling have the speed/fitness to be switching positions constantly. JMO.

    But, I'm a huge Kling fan.
     
  15. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Not sure that is true-- she was pretty good at it.

    And that is not of major value to Ellis, I'm pretty sure-- she's made it very clear that the sin for her is not getting into the attack, it isn't getting burned as a consequence of getting into the attack.

    The centerbacks are supposed to be able to to slow things down enough for the cavalry to arrive, and the attack is supposed to impose enough unfortunate events on the other team to outweigh those on ours.

    Ellis wants a team that will win 4-2 much more often than 1-0. And I see her as deserving extra credit for winning the WC with an inherited team that was built for defense first, first.
     
  16. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    Then play them again. Most (not all) arent needed past the group stage. I'd rather see press playing in the middle. There is no reason to give Lloyd minutes there unless its more midfield.

    I think Ellis is getting herself into another Wambach position here. Lloyd still has some value but not against top 10 teams. At some point, Ellis needs to start moving away from her
     
  17. hocbz

    hocbz Member

    Feb 15, 2016
    The fact that Lloyd is playing CF over Press is just insulting to her and the fans. Your most gifted center forward and natural nine is shuffled out to the wing in favor of players who simply don't have the talent she does to play wide as well. She's basically screwed by her own versatility. Same on her club team, where she is pushed out wide in favor of Stengel and ARod who are much less talented, but can't play wing. I get that Alex has to play for political reasons, but it should be Press coming in as her sub not carli.
     
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  18. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    If talent equals missing the goal over and over then you are correct and Press is very talented. To me Press for all her abilities in getting forward and her good speed is a liability to have on the field if you want your forwards to actually score goals and that is what forwards are supposed to do. Most of Press's shots miss badly over the top and completely kill attacks as a shot over the goal cannot rebound or be deflected to produce a shot for another.

    She did score on a break away but even that was close to a miss as she elevated it much more than was needed for the simple finish it was.

    I think that there are a number of more effective forwards in the pool but none as fast as Press. I think her speed is the main thing that keeps her in the squad. The best use for her is to come in late when the other team is tiring and use her speed to keep the other team pinned back and maybe produce a goal or two.

    If she were to spend some effort slightly changing her shot where it stays on goal more often she might then prove to be the real good forward she should be.
     
  19. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    What was the point of Mace playing up top for 5 minutes?
     
  20. hocbz

    hocbz Member

    Feb 15, 2016
    All of the forwards miss shots. She also never plays so of course she is rusty. Alex can only score if she's played near the six yard box. Her game is speed to get in behind off and set piece headers (and we have other targets for set pieces). Press is faster and creates a lot more opportunities for herself because she's much better on the ball and can shoot from a distance, along with being able to get on the end of crosses and long balls like Alex. I prefer her because she's not reliant on perfect service into the box like Morgan is. Any time you have a bunkering opponent like Sweden, I would start her. Alex is better suited to teams that are either defensively weak or give her space to run in (like Japan). Carli should never play unless it's against teams like Panama.
     
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  21. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    The fact that Press would ever have to play out of position to accomodate Arod is comical.
     
  22. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Well u may have something with that all forward thing as she seemed to be trying to sneak Mace forward from CB on occasion :) Hard to look at it logically tho. As u said Dunn and O'Hara can play either side equally well while Short and Sonnett both cover there side and can slot in at CB. Not really sure what advantage there is on have an extra right side OB over an extra left side OB for practice.
     
  23. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    I would have guessed based on Ellis in previous qualifiers that she would have played the starters against Mexico & Panama and then the second group against T&T. That would have given her a chance to clinch the semi spot before rotating the line up and given the starters a match off before the semi which is really the most important match in the tournament. So this was a bit of a departure.
     
  24. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    What are these reasons?
     
  25. hocbz

    hocbz Member

    Feb 15, 2016
    She makes money for the federation. Ticket sales and merchandise. She's the player who allegedly has the most sponsor dollars behind her. These things matter, as certain players have said multiple times. She's the one player who publicly supported Cordeiro, who is as establishment as they come for the Gulati replacement and is as likely as anyone to make sure she keeps her roster spot. I gather Carli is on the team for the same reason (politics/money). Hope (whether you like her or not, I don't think she's a liar) has said there are players who play for in part, non-soccer reasons, and implied heavily that Morgan was one of them. That's not to say she isn't a good player, but I think others are or could be better. But displacing the "face" of the WNT is an almost impossible task, and few will get the chance to have any minutes in that position.
     
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