Trying to read Arena's mind

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Pragidealist, Jul 21, 2017.

  1. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    I thought it very interesting that Arena started Nagbe in the middle. Personally I loved it. I think he's a very good #8 for the us.

    But this game was more opportunity to build experience and comfort between Bradley and Acosta if that was the plan.

    I'm wondering if a bigger plan is starting to form. We've seen him like Pulisic in the middle. The trio of Bradley, Nagbe and Pulisic is a pretty straightforward #6, #8, and #10.

    The weakeness with that is that we don't have a lot of established wingers.

    That got me wondering if that is really what he had been working through during this gold cup. We have played 6 different wingers during this tournament.

    Dempsey becomes the back up to Pulisic, Bedoya to Nagbe and Dax to Bradley

    It explains a lot of things regarding his player selection and sub patterns. Just some thoughts
     
  2. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Not really. Arena stated the US's primary goal for this tournament was player evaluation. The very heavy rotation of the lineup underlines that goal.

    He has given Nagbe, Bedoya, Acosta, Roldan, and McCarty starts in central midfield. Bedoya looked the best of the group.
    Not really. Arena stated the US's primary goal for this tournament was player evaluation.
     
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  3. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is seeming very likely that McKennie will supplant Acosta as the Jones heir apparent very soon. All the markers are there. Acosta will still have a role to play with the national team, but I see him as a relief man, not a key player.
     
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  4. Dr Jay

    Dr Jay BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 7, 1999
    Newton, MA USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yours and pragidealist's posts are not mutually exclusive.
     
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  5. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    "I was planning to ask to stay on the job until Qatar, but I think I better not. Good thing Curt's keeping my seat warm, and that there's no relegation. Otherwise, I'd be going back to a club in the third division."
     
  6. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Arena has cycled through 6 CMs in addition to the 6 wingers the OP mentioned. What's there to support the suggestion Arena is building towards a Nagbe/Bradley central midfield?

    Arena going with Bradley and Nagbe in tomorrow's match would be data point in support of the idea. So far, however, he has been rotating central midfield as much as wide midfield and forward.
     
  7. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    That two of the 6 cms were "reinforcements" or near guarneteed starters. At a point in the tournament where he is more focused on winning - I expect much less experimental lineups and he closest thing to "win now" lineups.

    The previous starting cms were likely bradly and Acosta .. the fact Nagbe replaced Acosta seemed to have significance.

    Likely that Acosta as dropped significantly in the cm pecking order.

    The most significant expermerination seemed to be the wing and when you start plugging in the European players -- it seems to start to paint a picture

    Add to that Arena has repeatedly stressed wide play - which isn't how Nagbe plays the wing.

    So 1) significant experimention on the wing
    2) Nagbe as a near guaranteed starter
    3) emphasis on width coming from the outside midS
    4) apprent emphasiss on Pulisic playing centrally

    And it starts to paint a picture for me
     
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  8. lmorin

    lmorin Member+

    Mar 29, 2000
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    BA is experimenting, but unlike JK, Arena's experiments do not appear to confuse everyone else on the team.
     
  9. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    My point is I don't think they are random, "why not" experiments...
     
  10. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Nagbe isn't a near-guaranteed starter in central midfield, however. Or he certainly hasn't been. Playing him as a box-to-box central midfielder in 442 is actually pretty experimental; he has almost 0 games there at club level. With the NT, he has been a utility player.

    His best competitive game for the US was in right midfield.

    Thus far in this year's WCQing, central midfield vs:
    Honduras: Bradley-Pulisic
    Panama: Bradley-Jones
    T&T: Bradley-Pulisic
    Mexico: Acosta-Bradley

    Arena gave Pulisic two starts in central midfield. I don't see a great emphasis on his playing centrally. Folks really, really want that to happen though, which reminds of the Landon Donovan as ACM days.

    Pre-Gold Cup, the selections in competitive matches don't indicate Acosta was a starter in central midfield. With Jones out and likely aged out and with Pulisic unavailable, Arena may have been eyeing a cm role as Acosta's to grab hold of. But that's not the same as designating The Man.

    If you're the starter then you don't fall so easily. If that is indeed what happened.

    IMO, Acosta was a young, up-and-coming player who was given some run in the position. He didn't do enough to nail it down, so we'll continue to see some rotation at the position.
     
  11. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bruce Arena turned Tony Sanneh from a target man from Minnesota into a right back on a WC quarterfinalist.

    I don't know how he does what he does.

    Bob was predictable and a bit boring,Juergen was batshit insane,and Il bruce is the happy medium.

    He has surprises but they're usually welcome ones.

    Except for the Eddie Lewis at LB thing.
     
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  12. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Should add that Nagbe has been getting (3)some games as at the '8' in 4231 this season with Portland.
     
  13. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    Nagbe has played all over Portland. I guess part of where this is coming from is that I expect the knock out rounds to be a lot less experimental-- and more win focused.

    Otherwise- why bring in the MLS A guys?

    If Acosta or Dax were still really in contention to start with Bradley then i would expect to see them with him in the last game to build chemistry.

    I don't see Arena as a guy that will change out his cm duo a lot as it ran partnership that depends on chemistry.

    I honestly expected more Bradley and Acosta to build that comfort. Now Acosta seems a sub for Nagbe
     
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  14. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Whelp, Acosta started in the CR match.
     
  15. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    And Chris Albright as a RB.
     
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  16. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    Yep... this post was pretty much a bomb. ;-)
     
  17. Mantis Toboggan M.D.

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jul 8, 2017
    Even that wasn't as crazy as it seems in retrospect. He had played some there in MLS and we had no other good options.
     
  18. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    Bruce tries stuff. He always has.

    He has a good idea of the characteristics each player has and how those could be molded to fit a position of need.

    This is a strength of his.

    Not all of them will work out, but some will. And some will prove to be smashing successes.

    That is why I always thought meme that "he plays players out of position" was an idiotic complaint about Klinsmann. Plenty of things to complain about JK over, but that isn't one of them.

    On a National team, you can not go out and buy players to cover weak spots like you can with a club team. You have to be creative and try guys out in various roles and positions to cover all spots and find a system that works with your personnel. Versatility is key to making a roster for any National team and players that can adapt and maybe fill a hole or a couple of roles will get special attention.

    Look at Beasely. He has been in what, 5 world cup cycles now? Why? Because he is versatile and is willing to do what the coach asks even if it is "outside his comfort zone".
     
  19. jackiesdad

    jackiesdad Member

    Apr 13, 2008
    The difference is that when Bruce decides to play a guy out of a position he's used to, he lets them know about it a week or two in advance and gives him time to get acclimated to it on the practice pitch. When Klinsmann did it, he'd tell the player about it an hour before the game, and the guy would look like a fish out of water. We've heard and read that from many sources since Klinsmann's departure. When he made a change, it was a switch that was guaranteed to fail.
     
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  20. jackiesdad

    jackiesdad Member

    Apr 13, 2008
    Oh, BTW, here's 3 different articles pointing that out:
    http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1616...ifferent-environment-gonzalez-hails-arenas-us

    http://www.sportingnews.com/g00/soc...up-2013?i10c.referrer=https://www.google.com/


    https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/u...829/jurgen-klinsmann-usa-fitness-philipp-lahm
     
  21. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Toscana
    I am the eye in the sky
    Looking at Bruuuuuce
    I can read his mind


    My apologies for that...
     
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  22. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    There's versatility, and there's what Jurgen kept trying to do with certain players. Like "let's play Michael Bradley at ACM" or "I bet GAM could play left midfield" or "Michael Orozco-Fiscal is a great guy to start at RB on the road in Costa Rica".
     
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  23. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Meh, it's a worthwhile discussion. Acosta is only the 5th or 6th top CM in the pool, but he works quite well with Bradley.
     
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  24. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Arena went with Acosta again in the Final. But the early hook in that match to top off a lackluster tournament for Acosta likely opens the door for other CMs.

    I'd expect one of Cameron, Nagbe, Roldan, McKennie, and Williams to partner MB in '18.
     
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  25. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    I don't like Arena .... again.... for the same reasons I didnt like him before. He is already locking in on certain players and others are not even getting a real chance to show what they can do.

    Why:
    Acosta - fast... and in the way a lot
    Zusi - is he really the best available in MLS
    Aerola - again fast... what has he really accomplished?
    Vilifana - can he deliver a cross or are they all blocked
    Zardes - fast, ok passer, thats about it
    Gonzales - big but subject to screwups
    Morris - works hard... mostly invisible... his goal was deflected by Jamaica defender or otherwise blocked

    Also
    Dwyer - was he sent home because of the pending trade?
    Rowe - did enough to stay... why was he released

    It's way to early to zero in on that top group. He needs to find more skill players and less runners. If the names above are it... we're not going to beat better teams. We did not look great against CR or Jamaica. It took Dempsey to save the CR game and Jozy kick to start our scoring in this one. I saw Mexico play Jamaica and I think they could have beat us or at least pushed us more that Jamaica did.

    So what is in Arena's mind? Who knows other than tunnel vision still exists and it has to stop. He should be giving players outside the ones above a real chance to show what they can do
     

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