To the Future: Ajax, 2018-19

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by Orange14, Jun 7, 2018.

  1. toonarmy44

    toonarmy44 Member

    Aug 28, 2002
    Tyne and Wear
    Interesting you call Trent and Robertson boring players yet they are some of the best attacking fullbacks in world football with over 20 assists each this season. Trent is only very young too.
     
  2. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    #1077 Gilbertsson, May 9, 2019
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
    This is my general impression, it's much harder to enjoy in English club games. So far, the most attacking team is Manchester City. Basically, every attack can bring threats. Manchester City needs to bring better defenders. Someone instead of Otamendi. Other big clubs have some difficulties. Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester United are in deeper problems. Tottenham was lucky against Manchester City; 4-3. But Tottenham has evolved from earlier decades, when they were 8th, 9th often with Carr, Robbie Keane, Sheringham, King, Sol Campbell. Respectful generation, even they were not so highly ranked.
    When I remember Crouch, Salif Diao, Andy Carroll. Strange selections.
    The decision where they started to buy Spanish players seemed ok, Xabi Alonso, Luis Garcia, with Argentine Mascherano. Emre Can isn't so good, Martin Skrtel, problems with the shape of Dejan Lovren (currently, the best Croatian defender, don't see other CB, who is better), fans of Liverpool poke him, Jerzy Dudek also bad.

    Good solutions: Kewell (best Aussie), Alonso, Garcia, Yossi Benayoun, Reina, Agger, Aurelio (free kicks), Kuyt (endless energy and technique), Babel (Ajax school), Leiva (he still plays in Lazio), Mascherano, Torres, Suarez (Ajax school), Sterling, Wijnaldum (Feyenoord youth), van Dijk (Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord missed him), Mane, Salah, Heskey, Westerveld, Hamann, Gerrard, Owen, Carragher, Dominic Matteo, McManaman. I liked to watch these players.
     
  3. Parel

    Parel Member

    Jun 16, 2010
    Club:
    NAC Breda
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I had another look at the extremely naïve Ajax free-kick which led to the 2-1 counter and it's even worse than I remember it. The free kick was taken from miles back and wasn't even close to being threatening enough to warrant de Ligt pushing up for it. And that's not even considering the scoreline - it wouldn't have made sense even if it was 0-1 to Tottenham, much less when Ajax were already 2-0 in front!

    So then de Ligt rushes all the way forward just to try to head the ball on from outside the box - seriously? I mean, to continue to have him in the box for corners at 2-0 is much more understandable (although even that didn't have my preference at that stage in the match), given his propensity to score headed goals, but this was not even comparable.

    A few seconds after the goal, just before the camera cuts away, you can see de Jong extend his hands towards (I think) de Ligt - who is by that time only just entering the extreme edge of the camera view - as if to say "where the hell were you?!"

    I'm guessing it was a last-minute idea from de Ligt himself to run up that far. I can see how his young age and the fact that he was flushed with confidence after heading in the first goal may have contributed to this decision, and this is something he'll no doubt learn from. I'm sure he'll move on to great things with his future clubs and hopefully also Oranje!
     
    Gilbertsson and Oranje98 repped this.
  4. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I had spurs to win on my cards especially with the inclusion of heung min son. Last week spurs clearly lacked the cutting edge but they still looked superior of the team but I didnt expect them to come back of this sort where ajax threw away a three goal cushion leading 2 -0 at the break. The game changed when moura scored the first goal and that shifted the momentum. Ajax have relied on counters through out the season and sooner or later it was going to evade them. The team that has the full package always wins. When it comes to final stages, this is where individual qualities of every SINGLE player matters and this is where the rise and fall is determine.You look at Liverpool last season.they looked destined to win only for karius to come up with deja vu in the final. What klopp did after that was to address the critical areas like replacing karius, bringing in fabinho and ketia.it all comes down to formiddabilty of the squad and again liverpool has lived up to it this season. This is something that was never there in ajax team and to win you have to have this and not to mention depth. Ten hag mainly rotated tadic upfront in champions league and then huntelaar, dolberg and tadic in eredivisie. What would you expect from dolberg who stil looks rusty. Neres injury just exposed that depth factor very similar to what happened to mo salah in the final last season when ramos dragged him down injuring his shoulder. It was lallana who replaced him but had no impact at all and then karius... klopp did the same thing with mane, firmino, salah like what ten hag did with neres, tadic and ziyech and in the end injuries of set the balance and the continuity of the team. Look at them this time around when Mo salah was injured. Origi was in a decent form to replace him. Looking at ajax I wonder why huntelaar was not prefered to dolberg when he has been good form.
     
  5. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    #1080 Gilbertsson, May 9, 2019
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
    Both finalists have deeper problems also. The better teams doesn't win.
    Observe Hugo Lloris and entire defence of Tottenham. In Group Stage their goal difference was -1, or 9 scored and 10 accepted.
    All four World Cup semi-finalists and majority of those players ended in deeper shape problem. They are either in Russia 2018 in their minds, or they are just weak now. Only Hazard and Trippier got the similar shape.
    Hugo Lloris has terrible season. Barcelona took 4 points against Tottenham. PSV Eindhoven made problems to them, 2-2. Inter also.
    Liverpool had 3 defeats in the Group Stage. They both barely qualified in the knock out stage. Liverpool doesn't have anyone among top goal scorers, Tottenahm has Kane and Moura. They both don't have top assistants, Trent Arnold has 4 assists.
    I expect a lot of goals in the final, mostly because of weaker defence of Tottenham, since Vertonghen, Toby A., Lloris still enjoy in their World Cup results.
    Title holders usually have 4 victories and 2 draws in the Group Stages. I expect Liverpool with title, mostly because they won this title in the past. Tottenham will feel the burden, who knows, maybe 3-1 for Liverpool. They are in the final, but it wasn't the convincing road.

    Teams with best team atmosphere go far. Observe the negative examples and player conflicts: Inter (Icardi), Bayern, PSG (Neymar). The team where players subordinate their ego and dedicate everything for the team, this team wins and Liverpool has this, same as Tottenham. Ajax and Barcelona gave up from their typical approach, possession, attack, they don't know how to defend constantly.

    We can't say that Henderson, Milner, Rose, Firmino, Lallana, Robertson, Matip, Oxlade, Sturridge, Lovren, Keita, Kane, Lamela, Rose have some strong individual quality, compared with Ziyech, Ligt, Messi, Malcom, Arthur.
     
  6. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    First and last warning -- take all the discussion of Liverpool and the Champions League final some place else. This is The Netherlands forum and not for EPL teams other than Dutch players who play for them. There is also an "Other Clubs" thread if you insist on discussing this stuff (not recommended).

    any further troll posts will also be deleted.
     
    Frysk Bloed repped this.
  7. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  8. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I really don't like Jose Morinho but his analysis of yesterday's match is spot on: Ajax did not get the tactics right in the 2nd half when Llorente came on. Spurs used him much more effectively than in the match last week as Ajax could not push the defensive line further up the field. Blind who is not as physical as de Ligt was the weak link more often than not and I don't think de Jong did enough in terms of disrupting things once the Llorente chested the ball down. Ajax don't see this type of play in the League and none of their CL opponents play so directly. I thought it was an interesting comment by Morinho that that the diagonal deep passes from Vertonghen are always more dangerous than the vertical ones. The Ajax MF was just not cohesive at this point in the match and the possession statistics showed a marked advantage to Spurs.

    It is in a sense understandable that Ajax kept doing what they have done all season long and they certainly created a couple of good opportunities late in the match to put the game away.
     
    Parel repped this.
  9. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Jose Mourinho is a different person with media and with players and family. His arrogance is defensive mechanism, but his coaching style needs to evolve.
     
  10. Phillyspur

    Phillyspur Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    England
    Mar 18, 2007
    Arroganistan
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Much respect to Ajax as a team and an organization. You guys lit up the competition this year. Most Spurs fans feel a lot of affinity to your club and would have certainly been cheering for you in the final if you had progressed, no matter who the opponent was.

    As a not-quite top tier club for a long time, we know very well the feeling of your best talents being poached to prevent your own progression. Sadly there is a food chain in football and I doubt that will change any time soon. Even if some talent is lost, I fully expect Ajax to be regular CL knockout participants in the coming years.
     
    aveslacker, Oranje98, Golara and 3 others repped this.
  11. White-green Pride

    FC Groningen
    Netherlands
    Feb 23, 2001
    Groningen, Nederland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Wow...Heartbreaking loss. This is one of those moments I'm glad I'm not an Ajax fan. Quite a few colleagues at work today who were truly gutted.

    I tip my hat to Ajax for this season's European campaign, I didn't think this was even possible anymore in modern football. Really encouraging to see that vision and adhering to a philosophy can still pay off in a 'money rules' football world
     
  12. pfloyd

    pfloyd Member

    Mar 18, 2012
    Varna, Bulgaria
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Squandering a 3 goals lead in 40 minuites at any level in professional footbal is something you don't see every day. We'll be in everyone's "Top 10 epic fails in football " list from now on. Still can't believe it happened. Don't understand the prevailing pessimism about having to wait decades for another semifinal in CL though. This team was prepared in less than two years and it doesn't rely on any particular superstar who's departure can be decisive for the team's performance. We have enough young talent and with the trasfers and CL money coming in we can afford signing one or two experienced players like Tadic and Tagliafico. What we need most is an experienced, more flexible coach. I don't think it'll be long before our next successful campaign in CL.
     
    Phillyspur, Orange14 and Parel repped this.
  13. Parel

    Parel Member

    Jun 16, 2010
    Club:
    NAC Breda
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I'm not saying it wasn't a huge messup on Ajax's part to give up the 3-goal advantage in the way they did, but I can think of many more epic fails than this, so I very much doubt they'd make any well-considered top 10 lists. A few years ago PSG threw away a 3-goal advantage in the last 7 minutes against Barcelona. AC Milan did likewise in 6 second-half minutes against Liverpool in the 2005 CL final. France's huge choke in the last two games of 1994 qualifying, Brazil 1-7 Germany, etc etc. This opinion of mine is also colored somewhat by my not feeling especially secure, even with Ajax at 2-0. I knew that a single goal by Tottenham could swing the momentum decisively, which it unfortunately did.

    I'd agree that Ajax are by no means done, even after some of the key players leave in summer, but of course to have such a unique chance to get to the CL final is very unlikely to happen again soon. I just hope they don't have a completely off season in Europe, like they did the year after they made the EL final. It would also be very welcome if other Dutch teams such as PSV, Feyenoord and AZ could take inspiration from Ajax and replicate some of their own excellent European campaigns from the early to mid 2000s!
     
  14. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I find this a curious statement. ten Hag is probably the most flexible manager Ajax have had in some years. I don't think anyone in my memory would have gone with Tadic as the false #9 in many of the CL matches since he tried it against Bayern. He totally eliminated the U-Turn football that de Boer used to win for league titles but couldn't do much at all in Europe. He also tried and failed, using de Jong as a center half when there were some injury issues. Maybe he could have done some more rotation of players during the season but I suspect he really wanted to overtake PSV and win the league. I'm pretty satisfied with his tactical approach to the game.
     
    Oranje98 repped this.
  15. Oranje98

    Oranje98 Member

    Aug 8, 2014
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  16. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    It's all BS. The youth teams at Ajax are all pretty solid. The U-17 NT that is currently playing has six Ajax starters on it. Eiting missed almost the whole season following knee surgery and Gravenberch got a start on the senior team. the Timber twins are both good talents and there are a bunch more. Ajax did not lose any youth players via poaching this year. I don't know what is bugging Jonkind, maybe it's that he is on the outside looking in.

    If you look back to the 1995 Ajax team, Litamen, Findi George, and Kanu were influential players and they were not trained in the Ajax youth system.

    I don't think any of the top players at Ajax have expiring contracts that would require their being sold this summer. We don't know what Overmars is thinking. Onana and Tagliafico are both staying another season. de Ligt just bought an apartment in Amsterdam with his girlfriend (daughter of former Ajax player and now lawyer, Keje Molenaar) so it may not be a given that he leaves. Ziyech will leave and I suspect that this might be part of an agreement with Overmars that convinced him to stay this season (the other reason is that he didn't have a good WC last summer and there were low ball offers for him). I'm unsure what van de Beek is thinking. Personally, I think Ajax is a good fit for Neres and IMO his lack of true speed makes it unlikely that he can succeed for a top Euro club.

    We'll just have to wait and see.
     
    Oranje98 repped this.
  17. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    I think out of all of them Ziyech might struggle a bit in one of the top 4 Euro leagues
     
    pfloyd and Orange14 repped this.
  18. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I agree with you on this. He is too easily dispossessed and it's unclear whether he is better as a winger or an attacking MF. Certainly England is not the place for him. Perhaps the best fit is in the Bundesliga with a club such as Frankfurt or Dortmund.
     
  19. I think Italy is the best place for him.
     
  20. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Italy or France IMO
     
  21. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member

    Jan 26, 2007
    Seems like this is a great time to cash in on De Ligt. From publicity standpoint, it's such a "feel good" story (that tends to drive value... market is so emotional and irrational!) - youngest captain, underdog team, unlikely UCL semi-final ride, etc. Next year he may not be as "visible" unless Ajax write yet another Cinderella story :geek: Never say never. Plus, I think De Ligt has grown the Eredivisie, and is good enough to compete at a more competitive league. My wet dream would be for De Ligt to join Van Dijk at Liverpool, wow - that would be massive! Literally and figuratively speaking. Liverpool definitely needs an upgrade on central defense, and De Ligt would thrive really well under Klopp's free style.

    Van de Beek - I think he should stay another season. Make him a captain and an anchor where you build a team around. Not playing in the shadow of De Jong and De Ligt would certainly accelerate his growing up.
     
    Oranje98 repped this.
  22. Frysk Bloed

    Frysk Bloed Member

    Sep 6, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    As much as I would love de Ligt at Liverpool why do they definitely need an upgrade on central defence? Joe Gomez is in the same class as de Ligt in terms of young defencemen, and they have one of the best defensive records in Europe. Matip has really come into his own this season as well. I would love for them to buy de Ligt, but they don't need him by any stretch.
     
  23. ManCity does need him more.
     
  24. Frysk Bloed

    Frysk Bloed Member

    Sep 6, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Even City has just spent pretty huge on Stones and Laporte while having Otamendi, Garcia and to some extent Philippe Sandler waiting in the wings.

    Bayern made the most sense to me, though I'm still holding out hope that Liverpool will buy him anyway because having van Dijk, de Ligt and Gomez for the forseeable future would give them the best CB group in Europe for a long time.
     
  25. Laporte did cost them the semi final with his blunder against spurs.
     

Share This Page