This is not a doom and gloom thread...I repeat...

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by banbaseball, Aug 6, 2009.

  1. banbaseball

    banbaseball Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    East of the Bay
    This is not a doom and gloom post. Seriously. However, I want to bring up my worries about the status of our beloved league. Over the years, we return to the quality of MLS again and again. Comparing it to other leagues and maintaining unfair expectations is beating a dead horse at this point. However, I think that MLS has found itself in the midst of a very critical juncture. And it is this juncture that drives my anxiety and what I want to discuss with all of you.

    1. Cooper Sr.'s comments cannot be dismissed. They are compelling and a call to arms for fans to begin questioning the business practices of this league; discussions which up until now have been marginalized to a small faction of hardcore MLS fans.

    2. The multitude of international matches have inevitably proven what many people around the world and in the U.S. believe about the quality of soccer in MLS--we're not as good in soccer as we are in basketball, baseball, and football. :rolleyes:

    3. The various near-loses and defeats in international tournaments, including Superliga and CONCACAF Champions League, are simply unacceptable. How is it that we cannot field a team that can beat various Caribbean and Central American clubs and yet the USMNT dominates in our region? Oh yeah, it's because most of our youth players bypass MLS entirely rather than being paid peanuts and most of our USMNT consists of players playing outside of MLS. Shame on you MLS.

    We have no reserve system and the players coming out of the academy system cannot even be guaranteed to play for the team that brought them up. A large number of MLS fans think that a player of any potential is stupid for going to college or starting in MLS. And most soccer/football fans in the U.S. who flood stadiums to see international clubs know little or could care less about MLS.

    On the other hand, we DO have stadiums, more teams are coming to the league, more younger international players are interested in using the MLS as a stepping stone, and US players are returning. But like Donovan said so brilliantly, "We don't want respect, we want to win". And as a so-called hardcore fan of the entirety of MLS, I want to see our teams win.

    The league is at a critical juncture right now, in the center of more media attention than ever before (for better or worst). As fans, as an integral part of soccer in the country, what can we really do to make sure that the league does not dismiss our voices and desire for the league to be successful both as a business and a producer of beautiful soccer?
     
  2. Mateofelipe

    Mateofelipe Member+

    Mar 10, 2001
    Spokane, WA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We will know more in 60-90 days. For real, this time.

    With a new CBA being worked on and the greater attention focused on MLS business practices and development, expect either a)reasonable, prudent upgrades in investment in the on-field product, or b)cosmetic sops to the critics.

    Don't expect the owners to break the bank. As to your specific points:

    1. All depends on your perspective. Some agree, some don't, some disagree with the specific complaint, but agree the owners need to spend more.

    2. Duh. I think it also shows there is a market for better quality, although some Eurosnobs are hopeless.

    3. The fact that the US and Mexico are large countries that dominate the region does not mean that there can't be some good clubs in small countries. And, so far, the two MLS teams that have been eliminated in CCL are the weakest and least-experienced representatives.

    My personal pet peeve is the calendaring, but that is not an easy problem to deal with. Some of it is still owners that think of MLS as a way of supplying venues with dates during the summer. This is a legitimate business consideration. The lack of credibility and actual harm to the product caused by ignoring the international calendar is also a business consideration, but one that only occurs to owners who know and care about football. In fairness, there are thorny challenges - long, severe winters in our northern reaches, long, severe summers in our southern reaches, for example. Maybe make the southerly teams play on the road in August and September and the northerly teams in February and March.

    What to do? Maybe a fan strike during the World Cup next summer. With a bill of grievances, not just the calendar thing.
     
  3. UPinSLC

    UPinSLC Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    SL,UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    god, this has been discussed ad nauseum. this CAN NOT happen in the united states, not right now at least. we have way to many teams that are in climates that will not support soccer during the winter months. thats all there is to it, MLS cannot afford to play during the international calender. salt lake, colorado, new england, new york, chicago, DC, kansas city, and toronto (plus philadelphia and vancouver) are all way to cold, snowy and unfavorable during the winter. on top of that MLS would have to directly compete with football (both college and professional), hockey and basketball. there is about a snowballs chance in hell that MLS could exist given all those factors. right now soccer in the US relies on fair weather people who will not be willing to stand outside and freeze their balls off. give the league another 15-20 years and maybe there will be a consistent fanbase who will be willing to show up in any condition, but they dont exist right now.

    making teams play odd schedules during certain months is not a way to go about fixing the problem either. the summer isnt that long, its really hot for maybe 2 months out of the year. the rest of the time its quite comfortable for everyone, both players and fans. salt lake is a perfect example, attendance SUCKS during april and into may, but come the end of may when the weather gets nice and school gets out then attendance skyrockets.
     
  4. WhiteStar Warriors

    Mar 25, 2007
    St.Pete/Krakow
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To keep up with demand, Seattle has increased its MLS capacity at Qwest Field from 27,000 to 34,200 and is averaging more than 30,000 fans per game. Toronto regularly sells out BMO Field (capacity 20,500), but even those crowds haven't been able to stem a league-wide drop in attendance of roughly 1,000 per game, from 16,460 last year to 15,435 midway through '09.
    Noticeably down are Los Angeles (26,009 to 19,292), FC Dallas (13,024 to 9,026), New England (17,580 to 13,616), Chicago (17,034 to 12,640) and New York (15,928 to 11,385). The Galaxy were without Beckham for the first half of the season, and New York has a terrible team, so drops there are understandable.
    Modest increases for Chivas USA (15,114 to 16,211), the success in Toronto and Seattle, and new stadiums set to open for the Red Bulls and Kansas City Wizards as well as the expansion Philadelphia Union are causes for guarded optimism.
    "It's too early to talk about what our ticket or attendance experiences will be," says Garber. "MLS is not immune to the economic effects going on around the country. But overall I would say we've got some really good things going on in a handful of markets, a lot of markets that are doing things as they usually do, and some markets that have had some challenges."


    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/soccer_america/08/05/MLS.forecast/2.html#ixzz0NRUkV2DW
     
  5. Emile

    Emile Member

    Oct 24, 2001
    dead in a ditch
    Most of this stuff is tempest in a teapot, and calls for fan strikes and whatnot is beyond counterproductive.

    The Cooper stuff is a personal contractual matter, of very little importance. Reserve league was not doing any good, and arguably players are getting better experience being loaned out to USL teams. Academy is a work in progress, but until the players are better it doesn't matter much (note that the same people creaming themselves over current academy players, are getting excited over essentially the exact same players that they dismiss as college rejects in the draft). The player pool gets better by the profile of the sport being increased in this country - complaining about every little thing is counterproductive.

    The terrible performances in continental competitions is a genuine problem. Obviously, MLS has a certain disadvantage by having its talent spread across the league. The domestic benefits of closely contested matches hurts when you send your worst team to battle the following year, or play teams, even from smaller leagues, that are used to winning almost every game. Those aren't very good, or even very true, excuses though - MLS teams have to do better in these competitions. Talent is not the only issue, there seems to be a motivation or confidence problem here as well, that I don't think is explained by the case of Cooper's missing money.
     
  6. Mateofelipe

    Mateofelipe Member+

    Mar 10, 2001
    Spokane, WA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It already does compete against against all those sports, and MLS still exists. In Houston, attendance goes up in November.


    Why not, so long as the pain is spread evenly? And what is so odd about playing on the road in one month and at home in another?

    Houston in early may is like Salt Lake in August, only with more bugs and humidity.

    Supporting MLS during the World Cup is like eating your peas in anticipation of the ice cream, escecially with all the good players missing. And that's for MLS fans. For your more indifferent soccer people, it proves MLS is irrelevant.

    Besides, the original poster is talking general quality of play, which includes more than the calendar problem, so if you are tired of me not being persuaded, and I'm still not, by the arguments against greater conformity to the calendar, then move on and make your own other suggestions in answer to banbaseball's question.
     
  7. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    With the whole "Beckham to Milan" thing set to reoccur at the end of this season, I had an idea which I'd kinda forgot about, but it might be applicable to this thread. It relates to the international calendar.

    Given that we know Beckham is going to be gone most of next season, my initial thought was that Bruce Arena ought to be talking to teams now about his next loan destination and thinking of ways the LA Galaxy might be able to benefit from it. My first thought was that in exchange for our part-time winger, we loan one or two young prospects from Milan's (for example) youth team. Players who aren't ready for regular Serie A appearances but who could add something to the Galaxy lineup. We'd get their talent, our roster wouldn't be so impacted by Beckham being away and Milan gets PT for two good prospects.

    Then it occurred to me: with the advent of the DP rule, we'll possibly see a few teams missing players next season. How about the MLS gets in touch with teams, or even affiliates itself with a league and in exchange for payment or other incentives, these teams 'donate' a selection of young players to be loaned to the MLS for the WC year. These players could then be allocated in a WC Superdraft, with picks assigned based on the quantity/status of players missing (a DP missing moves you higher up the pecking order than a senior international etc).
     
  8. Mateofelipe

    Mateofelipe Member+

    Mar 10, 2001
    Spokane, WA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    banbaseball's general thesis is that the quality has to get better, so your first statement indicates a difference in diagnosis, not a difference in the desired outcome indicated by your second statement.

    If you accept the premises that the quality of the product is at least somewhat related to the commercial success of the product and that the owners need to be made aware of this in a way that gets their attention, what other suggestions do you have?

    The profile of the sport does not benefit by product inferiority.

    Which is more unmotivating and confidence-weakening behavior by the owners - conspiring to minimize reward for excellence, or failing to send everyone to Tony Robbins seminars?
     
  9. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    4 playoff games in 3 years isn't much to draw a conclusion from.

    Well for one it makes it hard on the sales staff. Its much easier to sell 4 games spread over 8 weeks to the casual then 4 games spread over 4 weeks.
     
  10. Mateofelipe

    Mateofelipe Member+

    Mar 10, 2001
    Spokane, WA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To the mod who just moved this, this is the very essence of an analysis thread. Everyone responding, including those with whom I disagree, cares about the quality and success of the as a whole as a business proposition.

    This thread does not belong next to "so-and-so is dreamy" and "FC Idontlike'em Sucks!"
     

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