The "We Still Control Our Own Destiny" Game: RSL at Seattle, Sun. 23 Oct. 2 pm MDT

Discussion in 'Real Salt Lake' started by Ismitje, Oct 17, 2016.

  1. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Portland got in on the last day and was just two points ahead of the next three teams. Luck has a lot to do with it. Luck carried Portland last year.

    I'm not saying RSL is playing well. I never thought we'd be SS contenders this year or anything. I thought we'd make the playoff and here we are. We could get incredibly lucky or bomb out on Wednesday. We are where I thought we'd be at the beginning of the year.
     
  2. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Momentum
    we have none. 2009 RSL had a lot. 2015 Portland, as well
     
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  3. El-ahrairah

    El-ahrairah Member+

    Sep 20, 2004
    Wanker County
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which explains why nobody here is jumping up and down with joy.
     
  4. GoRSL

    GoRSL Member+

    Jan 7, 2013
    47.615587, -122.200340
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Au contraire mon ami - RSL has tons of momentum. It just happens to be negative momentum..
     
  5. RoyalNonesuch

    RoyalNonesuch Member+

    May 10, 2009
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Come on you negative Nancies we were just two goals away from a clean sheet! We are just a little unlucky. On another night we finish those chances...And now the full power of our roster is available. This is where ownership's leadership shines through. We almost turned that game around. The guys believe in the system and coach and fight for each other. How deep will this playoff run go? Anybody want a coaster?
    Sincerely
    Front Office Guy
     
  6. El-ahrairah

    El-ahrairah Member+

    Sep 20, 2004
    Wanker County
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can I have my coaster with some Koolaid, please?
     
  7. SenordrummeR2

    SenordrummeR2 Member+

    Jul 21, 2008
    Layton, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm hoping this game puts the nail in the Olmes coffin. He wasn't dangerous up top, botched his break away options, and played horrible passes/crosses in the box. Sure, he performed his role of pestering the defense, but he failed in his role as a forward. I think it's time to move on to another forward.
     
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  8. RSLer

    RSLer Member+

    Sep 24, 2008
    Stansbury Park, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nice call!
     
  9. RSLer

    RSLer Member+

    Sep 24, 2008
    Stansbury Park, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mid-week beat down on the horizon. Halloween Fright Fest 5 nights early. Caesar's strategy has got to be to park the bus and post Yura wayyyy up top.
     
  10. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't disagree, but we actually looked more dangerous offensively with him on the field vs Yura
    that's how poor the tactics/formation are setup
     
  11. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Agreed. How long has Yura had the heel issue? Honestly, Yura did nothing for me this year that would indicate that he was worth throwing money at for a long-term contract. RSL needs a goal scorer and a replacement for Javi, Yura is neither of those IMO.

    I think, regardless of the playoff outcome, there are several starters who shouldn't be back next year. Unfortunately RSL signed Yura but if this was the last year that Luke, Javi and Plata were in RSL uniforms, I wouldn't be too mad. It's time to move on.
     
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  12. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Yura could fit well in a system that actually gives him more support up top and doesn't ask him to be a post up number 9. Worth a DP slot? Not in my opinion, but he isn't awful.

    I'll say this: if you want serious change to happen with this club, we need LA to dismantle RSL on Wednesday. A close loss will give false hope that we're just that far away. I'm hopeful this is the last game for a good amount of RSL players. It's time to actually transition, not continue to hold onto old players/setup and think we can teach that old dog a new trick.
     
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  13. El-ahrairah

    El-ahrairah Member+

    Sep 20, 2004
    Wanker County
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm with you. I don't see what he does that RSL would want to keep him around. Sandoval would have been a better option given all the goals that Olmes has scored (yay! One). At least Sandoval isn't a flopper.
     
  14. SenordrummeR2

    SenordrummeR2 Member+

    Jul 21, 2008
    Layton, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think that's the problem. We looked dangerous with Olmes, but he lost the ball every time he got into a dangerous situation. He's the type of player we need for this "formation", but he's not the player we need.

    I also agree that if we're going to build around Yura, we need to move back to a 4-4-2 or play so that Yura has more support. He won't succeed as a lone striker.
     
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  15. JLaw

    JLaw Member

    Aug 15, 2008
    Happy Valley
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like how we all sit here debating what players do and don't fit in the system we run and how to fix it. Personally I don't see the point. I mean I love debating formations and systems and players and such, but the point is kinda moot when we don't really have a system... Honestly we have talented players, but none of them are being utilized correctly. I don't think this the formation we supposedly play, but they lack of direction given from the coaching staff.
     
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  16. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Eh, I wouldn't go so far as to say the system doesn't fit ANY of the players. It actually is perfect, IMO, for Sunny and Plata. A younger Javier and KB would kill in it, too. Hell, the middle five are actually in a decent enough position.

    The biggest issue comes in that the team doesn't know how to move out of the middle third to the final third in a threatening manner. This is because we go from playing a certain style through the middle to then a forward who simply doesn't fit the setup. Ironically enough, I think playing Dev would have been the most successful thing for the team all year. and I ********ing hate Dev.

    The second biggest issue comes from our lack of wing play from the outside backs. The middle five are creative to a point, but then get simply stopped because they've run out of space to work with. The need of an overlapping creative player from the back to make defenders move out of the obvious passing lanes.

    And, of course, we're relying on a very raw Justen Glad and (insert rotating below MLS top level CB) for our defense. You add in a good defender in Tony and a decent enough one in Phillips, and it's a wash.
     
  17. UPinSLC

    UPinSLC Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    SL,UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We are too slow, period. We generate a lot of soft turnovers from our opponents in the middle third of the field by virtue of having 5 midfielders (including 2 defensive midfielders), in this scenario a soft turnover should result in a quick play with 2-3 passes up the field and into the attacking third. A soft turnover should be followed with 1 pass to an attacking midfield/winger, 1 more pass to a hold-up center forward or out wide to an outside back/winger, and then 1 pass to a forward making a through run or a cross to a player attacking the goal. Instead we create a soft turnover, 2-3 dribbles with the ball, a pass to another midfielder, who dribbles around with the ball, a pass to a winger or back to a defender, who dribbles with the ball up the sideline, another pass back into the middle, more dribbling, more passing, more dribbling, etc etc. We create situations where we should have an immediate attacking advantage, but play so slow and methodical that it allows opposing teams to get back and settle into a strong defensive formation which prevents us from taking advantage and generating dangerous opportunities.
     
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  18. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Agree again. I know we tried Jordan Allen at that role earlier in the season which IIRC worked out okay. The problem I have is that Allen hasn't been put into a position to succeed. Give him a spot, let him play in it and work from there. I sometimes feel like RSL can develop players with great potential but can't get them to convert on the senior squad. Maybe it's an insistence on relying on veterans, maybe it's because KB is made of iron, I don't know. I just don't want to see guys like Allen burn out like some other RSL prospects have recently.
     
  19. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Agreed again. I think Burrito has the speed but when the ball gets to Javi or Luke (if he finds himself in that position) it just slows down. By the time someone is ready to move the ball to Plata or Burrito, their only option is to try and play it long.
     
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  20. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    this
    one of the things I can say Cassar kept from the Kreis days was speed of play. Which isn't a compliment. We're so ********ing slow in terms of literal player speed and the way we actually move the ball
     
  21. RSLer

    RSLer Member+

    Sep 24, 2008
    Stansbury Park, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As a counter point (I'm not disagreeing), the slow, deliberate style of offense reduces the number of opponent possessions and protects the back line. I think that was one of the reasons JK was ok with it, since he emphasized good defense when he built the team. Given that we came into the season worried about the back line, there is a reasonable argument for keeping that approach.
     
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  22. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    logical and I can agree to a point.
    However, one thing Cassar was all talk about was a more offensive team. Having a higher line, quicker speed of play would be the exact way to do that.

    All that said, we have to get quicker players on an individual basis on this team.
     
  23. UPinSLC

    UPinSLC Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    SL,UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not even talking about quick players, I'm talking about quick play period. I remember what the best soccer coach I ever had told my team about playing fast: "the ball can always run faster than any player". There is zero recognition of quick play by this team, we are methodical to a fault, it's been hammered into them for so many years that we need to make high percentage passes to maintain possession. I can see the point of getting our best players on the field, but if you're going to play this bastardized 4-3-3 (4-5-1) you HAVE to be able to move the ball fast in order to generate quality attacking chances. You either need a true target forward that is strong in the air and capable of playing on an island or you need players that can move the ball quickly and get themselves into dangerous positions with off the ball movement. This team is neither of those.

    I remember back in early 2015 in a preseason match Cassar talked about being a quick striking team, where we generate those turnovers with a lot of players in the midfield, then make several quick passes to spring players into dangerous opportunities. I remember this sequence in one of those Arizona matches where we had a turnover, Javi made a quick pass out wide, another quick pass was made up to Phillips on the wing, Phillips put in a quick cross and we nearly scored a goal. It was like 2-3 passes in about 5 seconds and we were in front of goal nearly scoring, THAT is what needed to happen with this formation and it was something I can't recall seeing from the diamond formation ever. But that was it, those types of plays never materialized. The only "play" we try and utilize quickness with is hoofed balls up over the top to Plata to try and run on to, where he gets shouldered off the ball easily or ends up being a 5 foot player trying to win a header against a 6 foot defender.

    I've mentioned this a lot, but every game I watch I feel like this team does a good job of forcing soft turnovers and instead of turning those soft turnovers into fast plays going the other way we make safe passes, either lateral or backwards, which kills any dangerous attacks. It might just be that the players we have don't have the vision for those quick 1-2's up the field or that the years of Kreis' diamond taught them to be methodical and overly precise. In any case we have a group of guys who loves to have the ball at their feet, dancing/spinning/heel flicking their way through slow play.
     
  24. DrownedElf

    DrownedElf Member+

    Jul 5, 2010
    Ogden
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It kills me how often I'll see someone like Plata or Phillips make a run down the wing, and nobody plays it to them. By halftime, I notice they end up making those runs less and less. I don't blame them either. No point in wasting energy if nobody will pass the ball.

    The lineup tonight was garbage, but we don't score that goal if Javi is in. He'd never make that run. Nothing like barely getting into the playoffs. I'd say limping, but that's too kind.
     
  25. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Javi wouldn't make the run Luke made and Burrito wouldn't make the run Allen made.
     
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