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Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by crazypete13, Mar 20, 2017.
Nah, Donald Jr. is doing the more important job, making Donald Trump money (well, so goes the plan).
From the Guardian on today's news. Words that tell it like it is.
"Comey’s appearance, flanked by the NSA director, Adm Michael Rogers, marked a remarkable and unprecedented threshold in US political history, putting beyond doubt that a sitting’s president’s entourage was under investigation for possibly conniving with a foreign adversary to put that president in power."
I'll say it again and again.
We need to have a serious conversation about whether we ever let Trump voters vote again.
U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson plans to skip an April 5-6 meeting of NATO foreign ministers for a U.S. visit by the Chinese president and will travel to Russia later in the month, U.S. officials said on Monday, a step allies may see as putting Moscow's concerns ahead of theirs.
So Rexie is off to visit mother Russia and snubbing 28 members of NATO.
The White House gets weirder and weider.
For their own sake as much as ours.
It's only weird if Jared Kushner also snubs NATO.
Wait, that would still be weird, just in a different way.
Et tu Marco.
I don't even get it....They are either so brazen they don't give a flying f*** or plain incredibly stupid!
Football is great. Detroit Lions Nation represent!
Not sure if it is stupidity or simple nonchalance, but I believe they know their base doesn't care - or understand. I think they are banking on their base not asking questions. I think they are banking on Fox defending it, Trump surrogates defending it, Trumps Tweets defending it and their base not really understanding complex issues while the rest of the GOP turn the other cheek. I think they are also banking on all criticism being viewed as "sour grapes, our guy won so get over it" and fake news.
Truth be told - they aren't far off. From what I can tell, to many Trump supporters, for example @JamieBmore and @bballshawn - Trump and his admin can do no wrong.
I'm banking on there continuing to be a lack of any evidence of any collusion with Russia.
You go on banking on that.
Director Comey confirmed for the first time Monday that the FBI is investigating the possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russian authorities during the campaign.
They don't do this for shits and giggles so - there is something there.
Meanwhile, everyone including the FBI and NSA, said Trump lied about the "wiretapping" (also known as "surveillance") on Trump Tower.
Lucy? You have some 'splaining to do...
I'm old enough to remember the Watergate years, and today for the first time i felt that we were on the road to repeating that history. There's a long way to go before this thing plays out one way or the other, but it was eerie thinking we may be heading in that direction.
Only Trump fans think it is an open/closed case. A lot of digging will more than likely put the actual story to light. It may be years.
There's a documentary series on Netflix about the 1970's, and my wife and I watched the episode about Watergate together a few months ago (we were both born in 1973 so didn't have much more than book knowledge about it). It was actually really good, and for the first time gave us a felt sense of just how uncertain and strange that era was, and that it really could have gone very differently. And yeah, it does feel similar right now, down to the sycophants insisting there's absolutely no evidence that Dear Leader has done anything wrong.
I'm gonna investigate my closet to see if a monster is in there, Doesn't mean a monster will be in there. You lost because you put up a crappy candidate.
Yeah yeah yeah wiretapping blah blah. You guys will forget about this in a week and still rely some mythical Russian connection to appear.
I have not heard a peep from you over the CIA interfering in France's elections.
You can't really be serious with that analogy, are you?
Not sure what Hillary has to do with this. I have said numerous times why the Dems lost. Hillary being an unmarketable candidate has been repeated by me over and over again. We agree on something. I'm not a fan of Hillary one way or the other. But - the fact that Russia tried to interfere in an election is worrisome.
Did they manage to get results, or did Trump win on his own is not really the question people are asking - and that is your problem. The question is; Did Russian try in any way to influence the election and were Trump personnel instigating it in any way? That, my friend is the question.
I could site pages and pages of US interference in political elections. Does that mean you are OK with Russia doing the same to the election process in the US? Or are you simply OK with it because it benefited your candidate? Be honest now...if it was Hillary - you'd be shouting, "Lock her up, Lock her up, Lock her up, Lock her up, Lock her up,."
Read this and tell me again if it is mythical.
Read this and tell me there is no evidence.
Read this and tell me there is nothing there.
"In early July, Carter Page, someone candidate Trump identified as one of his national security advisors, travels to Moscow on a trip approved by the Trump campaign. While in Moscow, he gives a speech critical of the United States and other western countries for what he believes is a hypocritical focus on democratization and efforts to fight corruption.
According to Christopher Steele, a former British intelligence officer who is reportedly held in high regard by U.S. Intelligence, Russian sources tell him that Page has also had a secret meeting with Igor Sechin (SEH-CHIN), CEO of Russian gas giant Rosneft. Sechin is reported to be a former KGB agent and close friend of Putin’s. According to Steele’s Russian sources, Page is offered brokerage fees by Sechin on a deal involving a 19 percent share of the company. According to Reuters, the sale of a 19.5 percent share in Rosneft later takes place, with unknown purchasers and unknown brokerage fees.
Also, according to Steele’s Russian sources, the Trump campaign is offered documents damaging to Hillary Clinton, which the Russians would publish through an outlet that gives them deniability, like Wikileaks. The hacked documents would be in exchange for a Trump Administration policy that de-emphasizes Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and instead focuses on criticizing NATO countries for not paying their fare share – policies which, even as recently as the President’s meeting last week with Angela Merkel, have now presciently come to pass.
In the middle of July, Paul Manafort, the Trump campaign manager and someone who was long on the payroll of Pro-Russian Ukrainian interests, attends the Republican Party convention. Carter Page, back from Moscow, also attends the convention. According to Steele, it was Manafort who chose Page to serve as a go-between for the Trump campaign and Russian interests. Ambassador Kislyak, who presides over a Russian embassy in which diplomatic personnel would later be expelled as likely spies, also attends the Republican Party convention and meets with Carter Page and additional Trump Advisors JD Gordon and Walid Phares. It was JD Gordon who approved Page’s trip to Moscow. Ambassador Kislyak also meets with Trump campaign national security chair and now Attorney General Jeff Sessions. Sessions would later deny meeting with Russian officials during his Senate confirmation hearing.
Just prior to the convention, the Republican Party platform is changed, removing a section that supports the provision of “lethal defensive weapons” to Ukraine, an action that would be contrary to Russian interests. Manafort categorically denies involvement by the Trump campaign in altering the platform. But the Republican Party delegate who offered the language in support of providing defensive weapons to Ukraine states that it was removed at the insistence of the Trump campaign. Later, JD Gordon admits opposing the inclusion of the provision at the time it was being debated and prior to its being removed.
Later in July, and after the convention, the first stolen emails detrimental to Hillary Clinton appear on Wikileaks. A hacker who goes by the moniker Guccifer 2.0 claims responsibility for hacking the DNC and giving the documents to Wikileaks. But leading private cyber security firms including CrowdStrike, Mandiant, and ThreatConnect review the evidence of the hack and conclude with high certainty that it was the work of APT28 and APT29, who were known to be Russian intelligence services. The U.S. Intelligence community also later confirms that the documents were in fact stolen by Russian intelligence and Guccifer 2.0 acted as a front. Also in late July, candidate Trump praises Wikileaks, says he loves them, and openly appeals to the Russians to hack his opponents’ emails, telling them that they will be richly rewarded by the press.
On August 8th, Roger Stone, a longtime Trump political advisor and self-proclaimed political dirty trickster, boasts in a speech that he “has communicated with Assange,” and that more documents would be coming, including an “October surprise.” In the middle of August, he also communicates with the Russian cutout Guccifer 2.0, and authors a Breitbart piece denying Guccifer’s links to Russian intelligence. Then, later in August, Stone does something truly remarkable, when he predicts that John Podesta’s personal emails will soon be published. “Trust me, it will soon be Podesta’s time in the barrel. #Crooked Hillary.”
In the weeks that follow, Stone shows a remarkable prescience: “I have total confidence that @wikileaks and my hero Julian Assange will educate the American people soon. #Lockherup. “Payload coming,” he predicts, and two days later, it does. Wikileaks releases its first batch of Podesta emails. The release of John Podesta’s emails would then continue on a daily basis up to election day.
On Election Day in November, Donald Trump wins. Donald Trump appoints one of his high profile surrogates, Michael Flynn, to be his national security advisor. Michael Flynn has been paid by the Kremlin’s propaganda outfit, RT, and other Russian entities in the past. In December, Michael Flynn has a secret conversation with Ambassador Kislyak about sanctions imposed by President Obama on Russia over its hacking designed to help the Trump campaign. Michael Flynn lies about this secret conversation. The Vice President, unknowingly, then assures the country that no such conversation ever happened. The President is informed Flynn has lied, and Pence has misled the country. The President does nothing. Two weeks later, the press reveals that Flynn has lied and the President is forced to fire Mr. Flynn. The President then praises the man who lied, Flynn, and castigates the press for exposing the lie.
Now, is it possible that the removal of the Ukraine provision from the GOP platform was a coincidence? Is it a coincidence that Jeff Sessions failed to tell the Senate about his meetings with the Russian Ambassador, not only at the convention, but a more private meeting in his office and at a time when the U.S. election was under attack by the Russians? Is it a coincidence that Michael Flynn would lie about a conversation he had with the same Russian Ambassador Kislyak about the most pressing issue facing both countries at the time they spoke – the U.S. imposition of sanctions over Russian hacking of our election designed to help Donald Trump? Is it a coincidence that the Russian gas company Rosneft sold a 19 percent share after former British Intelligence Officer Steele was told by Russian sources that Carter Page was offered fees on a deal of just that size? Is it a coincidence that Steele’s Russian sources also affirmed that Russia had stolen documents hurtful to Secretary Clinton that it would utilize in exchange for pro-Russian policies that would later come to pass? Is it a coincidence that Roger Stone predicted that John Podesta would be the victim of a Russian hack and have his private emails published, and did so even before Mr. Podesta himself was fully aware that his private emails would be exposed?
Is it possible that all of these events and reports are completely unrelated, and nothing more than an entirely unhappy coincidence? Yes, it is possible. But it is also possible, maybe more than possible, that they are not coincidental, not disconnected and not unrelated, and that the Russians used the same techniques to corrupt U.S. persons that they have employed in Europe and elsewhere. We simply don’t know, not yet, and we owe it to the country to find out."
Rep. Adam Schiff
This has everything to do with Hillary and the unwilliness for the left to accept the fact that their crappy candidate lost them the election and not Russia. Comey already said Russia didn't alter any votes.
No i'm not ok with it because "it benefited my candidate." Democrats just had shitty security and got hacked and/or leaked.
Listening and understanding seems to be hard for a lot of people.
Comey said Russia did not physically interfere in the election. They did not rig machines and prevent people from physically voting
They did systematically spread information and disinformation via hacking and fake stories which clearly benefitted Donald Trump and hurt Hillary Clinton.
That is the basics of what Comey said.
Now, Trump has had 4 people involved in his campaign who have done business, consulted, or discussed information with members of the Russian government / hackers immediately prior to, during, or after the election to the the point it is unethical at best.
I hope Trump is cleared, because that is incredibly dangerous if it is true.
Again, Stone bragged that he talked to the wikileaks hacker before the DNC info was released. Yet did not bother to inform anyone that the information was taken. That's how you cover yourself.
Then, Flynn as NSC discussed Russian sanctions and their removal while the current administration was placing them. We are led to believe that he made this policy choice on his own.
Maybe/Hopefully all of it is false, but this is stuff that has to be investigated.
Again ... these Trumpist sycophants are conflating two things that are very different from each other.
The fact that Russia interfered with our elections is not the issue. While the tactics may be new, the challenge is not. We can deal with Russia and the US will be fine. Especially if we confront this challenge in an apolitical and nonpartisan way, which is really what we should be striving for in foreign policy anyways.
The real issue here is Donald Trump's response to the interference. Let's put the FBI investigations aside for a second. Ignore any allegations of criminal activity. Forget Roger Stone, Carter Page and Paul Manafort. These things are all at least partially based on speculation because Comey won't reveal specifics about the investigation. Let's instead focus on what Comey does confirm, which is that these Russian activities did happen. I think we're at a point where we can at least have consensus on that. Even most Republicans will agree with that at this point.
So if we take this as fact, then why doesn't Donald Trump do anything about it? Why is he not taking this seriously? It's his job now to take this seriously. If there is one responsibility that the executive has, it's to protect the Constitution, our democracy and our national sovereignty from foreign adversaries. You could say that this is the President's most important job.
So why then are we in a position where the President is ignoring the fact that our country is under constant cyber attack? Like Comey said today, the Russians are interpreting their 2016 campaign as a success. They will be back in 2018 and 2020 and beyond. Again ... ignore all the allegations about collusion. Let's assume nothing happened. That still leaves the giant question : why is Trump letting Russia get away with it? Why is he encouraging it? Regardless of politics, why should Americans feel comfortable with a President that refuses to do his most basic duty?
It is remarkable that nearly 63m people got played by Putin