Sure. Politically-wise, there's a shift happening here. We're moving away from the US and I think it's a good thing.
Interesting discussion. On one hand, I think the Canadian clubs bring a ton to MLS, but I can see how Canadian fans would feel like it doesn't benefit them as much. For MLS, it provides the opportunity to reach 3 good soccer markets we otherwise wouldn't have if limited to just the US, and it expands the talent pool. But it's true that MLS is unlikely to expand to additional Canadian cities anytime soon. So, if you don't happen to live in or near Montreal, Toronto, or Vancouver, you won't have a team that is truly yours and therefore won't care about MLS. Hadn't really thought about it from that perspective. That said, can Canada realistically build a league comparable to MLS? Consider the NHL. Canada is MUCH more passionate about hockey than the US and produces a lot more elite players. Yet it's still a blended league with more teams in the US simply due to the massive population differences.
Last year, TV ratings in the MLS playoffs in Canada were: Toronto vs NYCFC - 238 k Montreal vs RBNY - 112 k NYCFC vs Toronto - 221 k RBNY vs Montreal - 181 k That's on par with ratings on ESPN and FS1.
The other really important piece of data I can never seem to find is the ratings for the games that are just shown locally. About 2 games per week are shown on one of the ESPN or Fox networks (plus most of the playoff games), but the other 9 games each week are mostly just shown in the local markets of the participating teams, just like any other sport. Those local media rights deals are crucial to the overall business model since that's how more than 80% of the games are shown. I suspect the ratings vary greatly from one market to another, but it would interesting to know what they are like.
to add on that: All Canadian Semi-finals: 1st leg: Montreal vs Toronto - Over 1 Million TSN (595,000) and RDS (429,000) & 3.6 million unique viewers, nearly double the previous all-time record of 587,000 on TSN and RDS for the TFC-Impact playoff match on October 29, 2015. 2nd leg: Toronto vs Montreal - over 1.4M with 862,000 on TSN and 519,000 on RDS & 4.4 million unique viewers MLS Final: Toronto vs Seattle: An average of 1.5 million on TSN/RDS for the final with 1.4 million of that being the English language TSN & 4.2 million unique viewers I'd like to point out that these numbers are in a country with 1/10 of the overall US population. Nothing sells more in Canada than an all Canadian match up. It's true for the NHL, CHL, CFL and it will be the same for the CPL.
------------- Going to also be interesting to see what happens with NAFTA, a very hot potato of business and politics. I know this is a very dumb question, but does NAFTA have any bearing on the business of soccer in USA-CANADA-MEXICO ?
----------------------- Thats what I was thinking, although it is a little bit of a farce to call Toronto the American Champion on the basis of MLS Cup alone. The CPL is the true Canadian league, thus their CPL winner (would it just be a Shield type situation, or will they create a CPL Cup ?) or leave the second spot to the V-Cup . Regardless, with Victor Montagliani the CONCACAF president, no better time than now for Canada to get their domestic league up, organize the regional leagues or whatever the plan is. The other funny thing about all of this, relates to the NORTH AMERICAN SOCCER LEAGUE. That name is almost perfect for a league for both countries. NASL could have been structured as the D1 for both countries with special rules that FIFA was ok with. Then each country could have had their supporting D2 or D3 under this and have those divisions specifically handled by the respective CSA or USSF. NASL could have been a joint venture between the 2.
I don't think NAFTA affects soccer. However, the way the US are going into negotiations and the crazy demands being made, it woke up a lot of people North of the border. With friends like that, who needs enemies. Now we're on a path to sign a free trade deal with China, CANZUK. Many here are saying we should walk away from NAFTA
Almost happened at D2 level. There were plans to have a Canadian D2 division in NASL. Then the NASL scandal hit and the CSA started to work on CPL. Montagliani understood that Canada had to be 100% separate from USSF. With NASL going under, he was right to step away.
The difference is that the city rivalries in Canada tend to be extremely intense as opposed to the US where there are rivalries but most aren’t at the level those of certain cities in Canada. That’s why the CPL will eventually draw because you get Montreal and Toronto on the field, pitch, ice and there’s a lot of ire.
And there will be lawsuits. Plenty of them. The CSA will have to prove to a judge why sanctioning TFC to play in MLS in 2007 and 2019 and 2025 is alright but not in 2027. The damages will be in the hundreds of millions. It will wipe out the CSA. hahah lawsuit you thing real football is american type of sport where judge for govt dis ides what happened judge from gov. makes a intention or move to start regulate sport usa is kicked out of fifa immediately that is what peru is going through now whith their govt getting involved
Keep thinking that. Suing the CSA is effectively suing FIFA itself. The teams wouldn't do that and MLS wouldn't risk it. Second, the CSA has full discretion on sanctioning. If they issue new regulations and teams refuse to comply, then they lose it. To take your example, any judge would say : -"Why didn't you comply with the CSA?" -"Why are we here anyways? The CSA HQ is in Ottawa and the team's HQ are in Canada" -"Seriously, why are we here?"
So let's say the CSA doesn't sanction TFC to play in MLS anymore and TFC goes ahead and keeps playing in MLS. Provincially, the CSL isn't sanctioned by Ontario Soccer since 2015 and they still keep kicking, so there is precedent. What are the consequences? And what happens if TFC petitions to play under the USSF banner? Does anybody in the Canadian scene really want to go down that road? I can't see anything but the status quo unless someone want's to risk Canadian Soccer Armageddon.
TFC not being sanctioned by the CSA would mean that are no longer CSA members. However, since the CSA has total control of Canada, TFC would have to play their home games in the US. They would not be allowed to play MLS game from anywhere in Canada. That's why Montagliani used that threat the last time. Removing the sanctions bans MLS from Canada They have to move to the US. As of today, no. However, nobody's happy with the lack of results from our 3 Canadians clubs who weren't imposed any restrictions. They abused the good faith of the CSA and it's unacceptable that they aren't starting 3-4 Canadians every game. The CSA imposed on those three a new restriction forcing them to start 3 Canadians during the Canadian championship as of last year. The CSA could go further at anytime and force them to do that for MLS games. Refusal to comply could compromise their sanctioning. In the end, it's up to those 3 to keep the CSA happy.
You're not informed so emoticons' truly the only thing you have to answer. The 3 MLS clubs have no restiction imposed on them from the CSA to allow them to be competitive in MLS. Although they did say their goal was to develop Canadian talent, the results tells us something very different. It hasn't happened, that's a fact. The abuse of good faith was that before last year's CSA restriction on those teams during the Canadian Championship against Canadian teams bound by CSA restrictions and weaker than them, they wouldn't play Canadians either or barely. It took the CSA to force them to do it, so yeah, abuse of good faith. Further restrictions are coming once CPL starts. Whatever restrictions CPL clubs will have will be imposed on them too.
I think if everyone spoke in such dramatically overblown tones the world would be an exciting place. So the CSA changed the rules of their tournament to get the MLS club to play more Canadians, GOT IT. :::adds old school soap opera keyboard for effect:::
@Robert Borden, regardless of what happens with the CSA when the CPL starts will you agree to come back to this thread and admit what you were correct and incorrect about? I will do the same (though I don't think I've made any definitive statements about this yet).
I don't see any abuse of good faith by the 3 MLS clubs. All have academies with good programs for 12-18 but it is in the 18-22 range that they have trouble finding a level for their players. TFC2 & Impact2 were totally shellacked in USL Pro in previous years and this year with the step up that the USL made the Caps2 team joined them at the bottom. So did Portland2, LA2 & Seattle2. So it isn't just the 3 Canadian teams that have trouble finding a level for their academy grads who are not ready for MLS. The players, with a few exceptions, are just not good enough. I for one thought that the academies would be burying the draft players by now but boy was I wrong. On the Whitecaps first team it is the NCAA guys, Parker & Nerwinski, who've taken their spot against some good competition. Adekugbe, Davies and Levis (CIS) have made it to first team and look like they have a chance. The rest have not looked good even against division 2 teams like FC Edmonton & Ottawa. To be honest if a player hasn't subbed in and got first team minutes before they turn 18 they should go to university. Get an education and if they are great they'll get GenA status after a year or two and failing that go into the draft at age 22.
I agree, which begs the question...why aren't they? With all the money those 3 clubs have, why can't they develop elite players? To me, that's really bizarre. Just as information for the rest of the board, Canadian MLS acadeny doesn't mean the best Canada has to offer. The overwhelming majority of young soccer players goes to academies outside of the MLS teams. Cyle Larin is the best example. Where was TFC when he was killing it in Mississauga at Sigma FC? Why can't MLS Canadian academies produce more Larins? Among most Canadian soccer fans, MLS academies are considered subpar result wise. L1O produce players capable of getting signed in Europe, yet, MLS Academies can't consistently produce players that can make MLS with all the money they have? It's rather odd.
Larin and Laryea are both from SigmaFC and both on Orlando. Edwards for TFC is from Erin Mills SC (13 years!!). The key as far as I can see is that they stayed with one very good club for 7 (Larin) to 13 years (Edwards). The others who seem ready for their shot (Jackson-Hamel, Tabla, Hamilton, Davies, Adekugbe) were all from non-MLS academies (Levis went the CIS route). Maybe it is just way more involved than we think? The Whitecaps have had their residency players playing in United States Soccer Development Academy since 2011 so it is 6 years and should be producing players over the next 2-3 years. I would even be happy if the players went to university and got drafted by other MLS teams. At least they would be eligible for the national team and be proof that the 3 MLS clubs can develop players.
Canadian MLS teams aren't going anywhere fast, CPL is still in Mickey Mouse stages. Do you really think CSA have any shred of sway over where an economic powerhouse like MLSE wants to field their team? Not a chance. If anything, CPL may partner with Ontario League 1 and USL Canadian teams to either absorb them or create pro/rel opportunity (I have read that CPL desires pro/rel).
I wouldn't say mickey mouse as they are meetings with ownership this week. An announcement seems very likely this winter with a start date of 2019. It's not about forcing MLSE and TFC into CPL. That's never been the point. It's about the CSA has the ultimate last say on renewing their sanctioning allowing them to play in MLS in Canada or not. The CSA will only get more demanding and it's up to TFC and the rest to keep meeting those standards. The sanction is renewed on a yearly basis and it isn't automatic. Last year, the CSA imposed a quota on the 3 MLS teams. A refusal to abide by those rules would have banned them from the tournament. It just shows you who has the last say in regards to Canada proper and that's the CSA The plan is for CPL to be Canada's top league. MLS is an American league with special permission from the CSA to play in Canada and have 3 teams. Canada has no Division 1 league officially until CPL starts. CPL will not allow TFC II in the league. (Vancouver and Montreal shutdown their USL sides). Bill Manning's rant left a poor impression on CPL group of ownership. However, if and when CPL launches CPL 2, TFC II will most likely join it but won't be allowed to promote to CPL. There's been talks between CPL Hamilton to affiliate with League 1 Ontario Sigma FC. The long term plan is for all CPL teams to have academies of their own.
Very little is tangible about the league yet, the front office is a handful of people led by Paul Beirne who is incompetent. Nothing about teams or ownership or a model has been confirmed, just wishful thinking and plans to date. I would even say they are behind, nothing has happened the last 6 months, hence pushing the start from 2018 to 2019. Requiring 3 Canadians on the roster isn't demanding, let alone threatening. It's more of a standard which CSA should have introduced years ago. Same goes for 3 Canadians needing to start Voyageurs Cup games. TFC has always had plenty of domestic players. CSA just has to focus on getting started and making profitable teams of decent quality to prove their model. Realistically there is nothing they can do regarding the MLS franchises. MLS is heading for 27+3, CPL may not even last to see that.