Eli Guttman will get fired anytime now. I am very surprised he got this much time after getting nowhere in the last campaign and now another horrid qualifier. This qualifier was the worst for israel in over 15 years , just based on my recent memory. I'm sure it's worse looking further back too. Who to replace him, wow. My wish, is Avram Grant again, did an amazing job in wc qualifiers for 2006. Didn't lose a game to the swiss (one of their best yrs), republic of ireland,(best team in the group) or france (which got to the final). Took some grief from many but did great. I doubt he'll take over anytime soon, he won't leave Ghana where he is doing an amazing job. I'll see him in the next wc for sure. No israeli manager looks really good right now, guy luzon is struggling at charlton, eyal berkovic is lots of talk and not taken too seriously, I think a foreign manager should be considered, luis fernandez was treated unfairly , i think we should go outside israel again to find a solid manager with real tactics.
Based on points per game this was Israel's worst qualifying group since 12 years ago in qualifying for Euro 2004 when Israel got 9 points from 8 games. How were they the best team in a group they finished fourth in? Ireland was the second best seeded team in the group behind France.
Well, Avram Grant, then manager of Israel stated his belief was Ireland being the best team in the group. Zidane didn't play all the games in the qualifiers for france, and they were not playing the same futball as they did in the actual world cup. You can't base them finishing fourth as all games were tied between the top teams.... until the ireland france game. If that would of ended as a tie , does that mean israel was the best (they would of finished top spot if it ended as tie). That irish team dominated most games , and although they finished in ties, they had the most chances and played the best futball.
I'm going to go by seeding and finishing table position rather than statistics from games (other than goals) and Avram Grant's opinion. What matters is that Ireland played 10 games and got 17 points. Even if they dominated possession, Barcelona and Real Madrid would never be happy with 17 points in a span of 10 La Liga games.
Your not really comparing real madrid and barca to euro qualifiers ? Very different. The point is all 4 teams played and had the same outcomes, all except one game with one goal. that is what decided it. Ireland looked the best throughout the qualifiers. Bottom line is that Grant did very well with 3 other big teams in the group, meanwhile, guttman can't do it with 2..... and they're not as good either.
I agree that Israel did better in qualifying for World Cup 2006 than for Euro 2016, but I disagree about Ireland in qualifying for World Cup 2006. Ireland was fourth in points like I said before and third in goal differential, so I don't see how you can argue they were the best team in the group. The goal differentials for the top four teams were +12 for France, +11 for Switzerland, +7 for Ireland, and +5 for Israel.
Your forgetting that when 4 teams are tied on points, you eliminate the minnows and it's only the GD between the top 4. So if ireland tied france instead of loosing that last game, does that mean Israel is the Best team in that group (because they would of topped the group). Ireland dominated swiss, france, and israel. They deserved more out of those games. They were clear favorites at the beginning of the group stage. I understand you, your saying they finished 4th so how can they be considered best. My answer is , the best team doesn't always win. That group stage was exceedingly tricky. Main point is that Avram Grant understood such tactics and eli guttman can't plan out a cup of coffee correctly.
If you change Ireland 0-1 France to a 1-1 draw, the top four would have been tied on points, head-to-head points, and head-to-head goal differential, and Israel would have won the group on head-to-head goals scored. Switzerland and Ireland would have been tied on head-to-head goals scored and Switzerland would have finished second on overall goal differential, so changing Ireland 0-1 France to a 1-1 draw would not have qualified Ireland, but it would have had France finish fourth, and they went on to finish second in the World Cup. I remember listening to Ireland 2-2 Israel online with Irish announcers, who said that Ireland outshot Israel 20 or 2 (or something like that). P.S. You need to learn grammar. "Your" should be "you're" and "would of" should be "would have."
LOL, do not worry about my grammar, I speak 4 languages and I am 100% sure I am more educated then you. So if you have a weak comment, do not use that as you're life line....lol. In regards to your stupid response, You just made my point!!!!!! Israel would of finished on top of the group as the #1 spot. So does that mean Israel is the best team in the group ? NO IT DOES NOT, Israel was NOT the best team in the group. That was my point from the beginning. I watched that Ireland Israel game, I did not listen to it on the radio. I actually watched and saw Ireland dominate that game.
Read my post that you quoted, I think you need to learn how to read and understand. All you did is repeat my first comment about the 4 teams and eliminating the minnows...... Again, If israel would of topped the group in the scenario ireland france tied does that make Israel the best team in the group. The answer is no regardless of the fact that they would top the group. You mentioned france went to the final...... LOL, ok kid. they did, but Zidane joined them on that ireland game and the world cup. He was not there during the qualifiers. Oh and I was at Germany for that world cup, not listening to it on the radio. France still could not beat the swiss who were in the group stage with them.
Are you saying that when Israel is not the best team in the group they did better in the table under Grant than under Guttman? I agree with that. Where did you watch Ireland-Israel on June 4, 2005? http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/wcq-on-fsc.200512/ says it wasn't on TV in the USA. We agree that Ireland dominated the game, so you having seen it and me having listened to it is irrelevant. You said about Ireland "they were clear favorites at the beginning of the group stage." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_...ation_(UEFA)#Qualification_seeding_.28UEFA.29 says Ireland was 14th in UEFA (excluding host Germany) in whatever was used to seed the qualifiers (Wikipedia doesn't say) and UEFA had 13 spots so by that measure Ireland wasn't expected to qualify.
The fact that Israel did better under Grant than Guttman is obvious. Forget the fact that Israel tied the 3 top teams in the group. Israel beat the minnows and that in itself is something Guttman and many others could not do. I watched the game at a english pub in LA. They used Irish TV to show it on a big screen. The place was full of irish fans and Israeli fans. Amazing experience with both singing songs back at each other the whole game. The only time I saw such intense interactions by fans was in Germany for the WC 2006 and in Bernabau stadium watching Liverpool play Real Madrid (champions league). Just like when USA does not show a Israel game but you can catch it on Israeli TV on satellite. If you watched that game and all the games in the group you would have a better perspective of the teams and performances. Israel played it's best games in that qualifiers however they were not the best team in the group. If Ireland would have tied France, Israel would of topped the group. I would of celebrated, but I would conceded they were not the best team in the group. Please do not bring in UEFA and FIFA ranking, I think even you realize how absurd that ranking system is. Every time it's discussed on tv, the commentators make a joke about it. Look at the pots for WC qualifiers for 2018. Austria is seeded in 2nd place (pot 2), Are they a better team than Sweden (pot 3), or republic of ireland (pot 4), or Poland (pot 3), The Fifa and Uefa ranking is silly. You can read so many articles on it. Here's one of many ....http://www.businessinsider.com/fifa-world-rankings-formula-is-flawed-2013-10 Going back to Avram Grant, I know you may not like him or respect him or whatever but he said at the beginning of the qualifiers that ireland was the most dangerous and best team in the group. Not based on paper and not based on UEFA ranking. Looking at the games which I watched, he was right. In exception to the final game, they had the best chances to win games. They played the best futball.
Lastly, Look at your link which you posted. LOL. I think you should read it before posting it. It has ireland in pot 2. So yes, they were expected to qualify. I also would of given that irish team just as much credit as sweden and czech rep who were both in pot 1. Here you can see others on BigSoccer who saw the game on tv at the same place as me in California. They may be referring to the first game but both home and away was shown at the cockk and bull http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...g-round-26-03-2005.168768/page-3#post-4487042
I know Ireland was in Pot 2, but not all the second place teams qualified. If the teams were listed in seeding order within the pots, Ireland was 6th in Pot 2 and 14th overall. As I said before, UEFA got 13 teams in the World Cup plus host Germany. Based on the seeding Ireland was supposed to be the top team that didn't qualify. Without checking rosters I would assume that some of the French players who played in qualifiers for World Cup 2006 had won World Cup 1998. Regardless of what other people think of the FIFA Rankings, I'm going to refer to them when they are used to seed qualifiers, although as I said I don't know how UEFA seeded their World Cup 2006 qualifiers. Israel's best FIFA Ranking of 15th was when they were managed by Dror Kashtan.
SO WHAT IF THE RANKING WAS 15th PLACE UNDER DROR KASHTAN....... at the point Kashtan took over Israel has not lost a game at home in years. Grant's national team in 2005 was undefeated!!! I like Kashtan, I believe he did well when he was grouped with England (finished on same points), and he beat russia. Looking at the following campaign for the 2010 world cup, he lost to Latvia at home. AGAIN, You must beat the minnows. In regards to the French players who played in the 1998 final, ZIDANE, THURAM, AND MAKELELE, All returned for the final matches. "the old guards returned" was the headlines in the media. They did not participate in the entire qualifiers. The team got 2 times stronger when they returned from retirement. Fifa ranking is absurd. I am not going to waste my time debating who is better and who is worse based on that. I can point out many teams who do not deserve to be seeded above others in fifa ranking, but that is something I will not do as it is a waste of time. I believe I will take Avram Grants comments, as well as others on tv and radio over these stupid comments you made.