The Official Earnie Stewart as GM Assessment Thread

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by TheFalseNine, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    You misspelled "junk midfielders".
     
  2. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    That kind of depends which box you put Pulisic into. We were the highest scoring team in the Hex but the 4th best defense.

    So I blame the defense primarily. Then midfield and keeper. I wouldn't disagree that the midfield was in a depth lull this last cycle that let players like Bradley keep jobs they weren't earning every game. But Bradley plus Pulisic if he's in that box would be plenty for many teams.

    No, the problem is Villafana Omar Besler Cameron Brooks etc etc. That's like not even ready for prime time. Nagbe might be disappointingly mediocre but mediocre ain't bad.

    Also you're omitting Saief and Lletget and the impact their injuries had. I think in the abstract the pool had sufficient mids to make it. But they weren't healthy and Bradley was too old for a depleted situation.
     
  3. Step Over

    Step Over Member

    Oct 18, 2008
    Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ok, I was actually responding to this from Borrachin

    "Build public futsal courts across the country and public soccer parks in low income area where kids cannot afford to play"

    The issue is coaching AND fields/parks though. These kids in the cities need a place to play that is close to them, if they have to travel out to the burbs they're not going to get involved in the game
     
  4. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Defense isn't four guys on a back line. It is a team effort.
     
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  5. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    Sorry, don't buy it. Some people have a knack for it, some don't. There is stuff like athleticism you cannot teach, and then stuff like positioning and soccer IQ that you either grasp or not. For example, Omar Gonzo will always be a clumsy stick figure dribbling cone. Even a player like Yedlin had the athlete part but not a firm grasp of his position. You put 4 of those flawed types across a line and last cycle is what happens.

    I get people THINK it's a throwaway position where people who can't play forward land. But it's more like some attacking players know how to defend and can be retasked (but some couldn't play there either). You either have the athleticism and the knack or not.

    My Dynamo are routinely sending out 532 on road games lately and still not getting the points. That's cuz a big fraction of the players can't defend. Not athletic enough, or don't really have the knack. This particularly shows up in this era of "backs who get forward," ie, settling in favor of a back who can cross whether he can defend or not.

    I do agree that if you really get the ball rolling right, it's a team thing, every player committed to defense. If I didn't play defense hard in club as a kid, my coach wouldn't leave me on the field. But I was on the field in HS and college because I could defend well as a specialist. And that's not hustle but knowing what you're doing.

    I think the focus in the US went towards developing foot skills. But I think you can inculcate defensive IQ -- if they are ever going to get it -- with basic 6 on 4 or 3 on 2 drills where one has to learn to cover more men than there are defenders. Too many USMNT look like they don't know how to position to cover space.
     
  6. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    I don't disagree with anything you said in this post but I still don't think you refuted my point. Whether or not we had the best back line or the worst back line, having the "4th best defense" over the course of qualifying is a function of team performance, organization and tactical nous much more than individual performance.
     
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  7. Borrachin

    Borrachin Member+

    Feb 28, 2006
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree, the opportunity for any of these players to be seen is what is lacking. I feel like scouts go to their "peers" teams and recruit from there only. We need a bigger network.
     
  8. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #233 juvechelsea, Aug 14, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
    I played on what was basically a club superteam and our building efforts basically consisted of picking off the troublesome good players off teams that gave us a game. This served two purposes, our team kept improving and could cut the weaker links, and their team lost the one player who could score on or stop us. We had a handful of hispanic players on the team, pass through, or be considered, but they were all suburban kids of professional parents already within the club system, just from other teams.

    I don't think participation is the problem. I don't feel like fields are the problem. The deal in Texas at least is you have a whole parallel Spanish language set of leagues that don't mix. They don't enter select leagues. They don't go to tournaments. The only time you cross paths is either you guest play in their league or they show up playing for high school teams. And it was always very interesting because you get used to the usual suspects and all of a sudden it's like, you have a random HS game, or a state playoff, who are these kids? Put that kid in our system for 2 years, get him fit, he'd be a star. You could just tell.

    And my experience was what they needed was attention and coaching. They didn't do enough fitness work to keep up. They were totally raw and didn't necessarily get the team game.

    Sorry but the "fields" thing is like this sheer volume concept where people think not enough people play and what we lack is opportunity. I don't buy it. These kids already play. They don't have to be convinced. It's already in the blood. These kids here have fields. That's not the problem. The problem is they are not even on our radar for club, ODP, and college. And they are not being coached like I was where tactical stuff and fitness is like in your DNA. And if they try to suddenly jump in, in college or professionally, they never get the rawness honed where they can handle high level team play.

    I know under people like Klinsmann the sales pitch was we needed to get better on the ball individually, but the reality is that players like that are washing out in team settings not for lack of skill but because they are too far behind on tactical and fitness that you take for granted with everyone else. Kind of like a pro team isn't going to sit there and baby you to fix your weak spots. If they have to try and teach you how to play soccer at U23 or U20 or college you're in trouble. You either don't make the team or are buried on the bench.
     
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  9. jmplautz

    jmplautz Member

    Jul 28, 2007
    Madison
    This hit's a lot of it. Maybe not all of it, but a lot of it.

    I've seen a lot of skilled, athletic players in my over 40 leagues that I swear had to have played in college and didn't. I've also seen a lot of players with the touch of donkey who actually played in college. Granted, this was the youth development of 25+ years ago. But, it still seems to me that the identification and selection of players is still quite flawed. We are still limited by metaphorical gate keepers. If you never have an opportunity because of life circumstances to be seen by said gate keepers you are screwed. The ladder up doesn't exist for you.
     
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  10. Step Over

    Step Over Member

    Oct 18, 2008
    Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There are multiple problems not just one or two. Kids in cities have trouble accessing the game because there aren't places to play. They have to go to suburbs to be involved. Why should they only address 1 or 2 issues?

    You're only focusing on the Hispanic kids what about all the black kids that think soccer is a suburban white kid sport? There's many problems regarding access that is an issue.

    There's a cool documentary called Concrete Football which basically shows how kids in Paris develop their skills. It's like that all over Europe and SA. We don't have that here yet.
     
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  11. USA-Zebuel

    USA-Zebuel Member+

    Mar 26, 2013
    Club:
    Colón de Santa Fe
    Yup!

    Seems to be a lot of people confused about this. If the midfield isn’t marking, slowing play through mid, and clogging passing lanes then the defense will suffer regardless. Ream caught a lot of crap on these boards because of this dynamic. He was trying to cover all the holes and runners left by the midfield and got burned, but I think most CBs would have been caught out as well.
     
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  12. jmplautz

    jmplautz Member

    Jul 28, 2007
    Madison
    In my city in Wisconsin, there is the same issue with the Latino community. Most of it is born out of the fact that the club teams become quite expensive. Some do cross over (both ways), but it's usually a handful. I do know that the main club in the area does not schedule games with the Latino teams because they regularly get beat. Parents don't like having little Johnny get beat by a team that costs a fraction of what they pay.
     
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  13. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    College coaches aren't going to give spots to kids who can't make the grades. A college coach told a group of parents that and also said a kid who can get an academic scholarship and still be a great player on the team allows a sports scholarship to go to a lesser scholar but good player. That's not really a problem now with academies signing players in high school although some club teams are set up basically to entice rich parents to keep spending gobs of money to get Johnny a soccer scholarship. Johnny usually doesn't like 3rd division schools in Arkansas and Kansas and drops out of college after a year or two.
     
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  14. 10 Donovans

    10 Donovans Member

    LAFC
    United States
    Aug 11, 2018
    Los Angeles
    It's a good thought experiment. It's possible, it all depends on what metrics USSF contracted with Double Pass. For example they could give more incentive fund money to teams that field at least 75% domestic players. But if they missed that... clubs could field youth players mostly from Jamaica and meet the metrics to get money from USSF. I wonder if the Canadian teams are eligible in the incentive fund, would they get money for developing U.S. talent?

    USSF has been trying to push for academies to go "grassroots" and grow local talent. The logical assumption is they thought this through. It also would not be difficult to request additional metrics from Double Pass. ...If teams do start developing a disproportionate amount of Hondurans ;)
     
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  15. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Excellent info in a nutshell. The whole failure right there. A crippled Bradley, a nonchalant Nagbe and a wild Arriola in midfield in front of the back line, with fullbacks who provide the width because it's a 'skinny' diamond and, presto, you have exposed cb's in front of a grandpa in goal. I was going nuts reading all the pages of criticism of our cb's after every game in the hex when it was the circus in front of them that was the problem.
     
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  16. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Me too.
     
  17. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    sorry, no, cannot agree, omar is a stick figure dribbling cone, brooks would alternately play like a star or a schmuck, villafana is slow as molasses, yedlin is still trying to learn his position, cameron fell apart, etc etc

    there is a reason why they will be swept aside by the new influx just like the mids.

    i don't think it helped that they were in fact exposed by the tactics (and downside) you correctly explain. but even the ones with plenty of gas in the tank are about to be run off the field by children.......there is not a no doubter stud eddie pope or boca or dolo among them.

    i mean several of these guys were called in and available for france and they were sent to the bench behind robinson parker etc.

    i felt like the midfield wasn't Arena's fault but the backline was.
     
  18. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who picked Omar to start? Arena. Who kept regurgitating Villafana and Besler? Arena.

    Brooks is currently the highest paid for transfer in our history. BL1 execs see something. He's injury prone and I'm not certain he gives 100% much of the time.

    Yedlin is more than good enough for Concacaf play.

    Howard was the traffic cone and the DM's (sic) did nothing to help out.

    Defense is on team. Team is on coach.
     
  19. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't want to nitpick too much, but I quite like Besler.

    Omar, Zusi, Villafana, Beasley, Ream, etc. they were terrible.

    Besler, not really. I've always seen him as a very good, consistent choice at CB for almost 2 cycles now.
     
  20. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not a Besler hater and probably didn't need to add his name in there; he's smart and can play. But he is exposed on a line with nothing else on it. As most would be who aren't 6'4" and 4.4 fast.
     
  21. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    No worries. No law I know of says we have to agree.
     
  22. manfromgallifrey91

    Swansea City
    United States
    Jul 24, 2015
    Wyoming, USA
    Club:
    Southampton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  24. 10 Donovans

    10 Donovans Member

    LAFC
    United States
    Aug 11, 2018
    Los Angeles
    https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/20...ideo-mnt-developing-the-future-earnie-stewart

    Earnie put together a video statement. Mostly stuff that has already been said.

    I thought it would be good to compare this with an old article. It adds some context for why Earnie was brought in.
    https://www.si.com/vault/2010/05/24/105940845/a-gringos-game

    > It's from 2010
    > It's starts with Clint Dempsey
    > ctrl+f for And therein lies to skip ahead (I like the parts about Clint)
    > It's a reminder that in 2010 Sunil and Klinsmann were very aware of the issues for the USMNT, but not able to execute their ideas
    > There's a part that suggests more players like Dempsey are in the pipeline. But clearly they weren't scouted or rated properly by the scouts at the time

    Summary and TL;DR
    It seems that Earnie has been tasked with executing ideas that Sunil and Klinsmann weren't able to execute. Along with identifying coaches for hire. It explains why the coaching search has been going at it's pace. USSF could have directed him to finish finding an identity first.

    I assess taking a few weeks to identify a team identity as a 7/10 (room for bonus points if it improves the team).
     
  25. Some people in the Netherlands put Earnest on the list of possible next seasons Feyenoord DoF.
    Don't think it's real, but thought I mention it to you.
     
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