Alert: The NT Players Performance and Ratings Thread 2012/2013

Discussion in 'Germany: National Teams' started by Kirsten19, Aug 26, 2012.

  1. timh19

    timh19 Member+

    Jul 26, 2011
    Technique : both have amazing technique.... I would put them equal.

    Positioning and Movement....... well you could argue about that too. Goetze's movement is pretty good. He has contributed to 30 goals ( 14 goals and 16 assists) for Dortmund this season. Oezil has 5 goals and 16 assists for Real Madrid.
    What do u think, MatthausSammer ?
     
  2. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I believe Götze is freaking amazing. The stuff he does on a weekly basis at the age of 20 is truly phenomenal. Having said that, I believe Özil is also amazing, and can be among the closest thing to the second coming of Zidane you'll see, excluding Xaviesta, at his pinnacle. Unfortunately he reaches his pinnacle too rarely, and sometimes you forget he's even on the field, but I believe Özil in top form is better than Götze in top form RIGHT NOW.

    Götze has potential to seriously make a run at the Ballon D'Or in his prime IMO, something I don't believe Özil could do even in his. In the context of the NT, I think the two could well create a link-up and chemistry on the field that could achieve great things for the NT were Löw to attempt to try and put them in the same lineup. But I am a fan of Özil on the starting XI over Götze for now in the NT were it to come down to an either/or decision.
     
  3. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Nope;

    Reus-------Oezil--------Goetze
     
  4. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    MAKE IT HAPPEN JOGI! :) It at least deserves a shot.
     
  5. Rosebud

    Rosebud Member+

    Aug 5, 2012
    Chicago, IL, USA
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Eh, I'm in the camp that has reservations over how well Ozil and Gotze would work together. Both have had to play alongside central AM before, but both have also done their best when they got htat position of primary ball handler/playmaker. Gotze's a great player, especially when you factor in his age, but Ozil's still better, his vision, his passing, his ability to tear apart a d with his movement and positioning are all at a level Gotze just can't hit yet. Mario's better dribbling through a crowd and is a marginally better finisher, but for now, that's all he does better than Mesut.
     
  6. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

    Apr 14, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    It's too early to tell whether Özil as supplier won't get the accolades. For Germany he's more proactive so there's plenty of promise there. Götze though, you're right, much easier to spot as an important figure but that really doesn't mean much in the overall scheme of how they're valued.

    And you're wrong about Özil disappearing and you can't give a good example of a game he disappeared in. In fact, he has become a big game player. His record in Clasicos is excellent and for Germany he's always been very good in big matches. I don't know why you would dare to make such an implication when you clearly can't give examples for it. Just because one player is more proactive and the other is involved in build up is no reason to draw to such conclusion.



    I underrate him as soon as I hear ridiculous claims like he's the biggest talent since the 70's and comparisons to Özil at Bremen because I wouldn't even begin to make a Klopp Dortmund comparison to the Bremen side Özil played in until that was brought up. It's simply not a good example to judge each player.



    Again, don't even try it. Don't even compare Bremen's supporting cast to that of Hummels, Gündogan, Kagawa, Lewandowski, Bender, Reus.


    False. Götze would be a lot more comparable to Silva. Show the data that says so. In fact the positions they occupy, Özil IS a lot closer to Iniesta because they both play FAR deeper than Götze. That's without question.


    You don't know the differences in the systems? Well that's a shame because Germany has Klose ahead to cater to and at Real he has Ronaldo, Higuain and Benzema. HUGE difference. Look at where he plays for both teams. For Germany he constantly gets into advanced areas of the pitch whereas for Madrid he stays more tucked in. Nobody is "blaming" a system unless you're looking to chastise someone which YOU are. It's simply context.
     
  7. BorisG

    BorisG Member+

    Sep 30, 2009
    Namibia
    Club:
    FC Nürnberg
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Agreed and adding Muller in the MIX as a striker

    ................Muller.....................
    Reus.......Oezil..............Goetze
     
  8. morgan07

    morgan07 Member

    Jun 13, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Well maybe he'll never win it, though I very much doubt not being the most direct player in the game would be the reason. Anything can be awarded, it really just depends on what or who the hyping machines think it cool to be awarded. I mean, look at Spain players in 2011/2012 season, though neither won it. Iniesta had a poor season with Barca which was mostly carried by Messi and Busquet all season. Came the Euro tournament, Spain winning, and suddenly Iniesta was hailed as contender of ballon d'or, making the top 3. I admit that Iniesta had one really great game where he's trully MOTM in the group stages of the Euro. But in other matches it wasn't Iniesta that made a difference, a lot of different players showed up big time from Ramos to Xabi, to Silva, even Jordi Alba. Even best individual performance from Spain player during the Euro was Xavi vs Italy in the final. But it seemed like it had been decided that Iniesta is the chosen one that he's awarded as player of the tournament and advertised as one that carried Spain during the tournament as if he's by miles ahead of rest of his teammates which is far from the truth.

    And I just want to add that watching Ozil the past 3 seasons with us, I don't think he's ever disappeared bar 2 extreme disaster matches vs Barca in his first season, one when we're losing 5-0 and other was 1 match in CL when we literally just sitting deep watching Barca playing tiki taka in their own half. Unless you consider not being explosive, not dribbling or taken on player often enough in a single match = disappeared. Difference can be made in many many ways. We have matches where we demolished a team, we also had share of matches where we're struggled. In whichever situation Ozil rarely ever failed to make a difference. Whether it's a shot he rarely takes, a fancy dribbling into the box through traffic, delicate through balls or crosses for assist, simply well taken free kick or corner, or a backhell play like he did in last game. People always talk about how we're struggled vs Bayern and Dortmund and Ozil got so much sticks for it. But people forgot it's Ozil's goal and well timing passes to Ronaldo that made us still breathing until the penalty. Also it's from Ozil's over the top lob pass to Ronaldo, cross to Pepe, and well taken free kick that we can scored our 3 goals vs Dortmund. Call him disappeared or struggled or whatever in those games along with United matches if you like, it didn't stop him to make a difference in any of those matches, did he? He made difference even more so than the players from the opposition who's supposed to have a better match. Like or hate his style, but with his contribution he has been much more that just as a great supporter.
     
    SirManchester and Dage repped this.
  9. morgan07

    morgan07 Member

    Jun 13, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Finally I have to say it's really weird reading the comparison to Iniesta is seeing like such an honour or something in here. Sure Iniesta is a great player and a joy to watch. But he's not a 10/10 perfect player people made him out to be, he has weaknesses too. His inability to adjust on the wing and provide width properly has been one of Barca's biggest problems this year. He's pulling out nice tricks and dribbles a lot during the match, but rarely with end product. His vision and final passes isn't that great, definitely not anything close to Xavi on his prime. He scored the winner for Spain and Barca, but his finishing in general isn't something to brag about. There's a reason Barca's been struggling so much when Messi not on it to bail their asses. His defensive game I definitely don't rate highly.
     
  10. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

    Apr 14, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Sounds like Özil to me.
     
  11. morgan07

    morgan07 Member

    Jun 13, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Ozil isn't as generous as Iniesta in showing his dribbling prowess & tricks though. But imo he's a better wide player and final passer than Iniesta.
     
  12. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

    Apr 14, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I agree he's a better wide player because he has had to play that in various 4-4-2's and 4-2-3-1 formations as opposed to Iniesta who practically grew up through a strict 4-3-3 but I don't think it takes much away from him individually. Oezil and Iniesta are both conventional dribblers. They will use their body movement, their pelvis to turn and anticipate, instead of doing step-overs, etc so when Oezil holds the ball and does his feints I think he is showing us that dribbling.
     
  13. odd1234

    odd1234 Member

    Mar 2, 2011
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    FYP

    +, Ozil is levels above Gotze. Maybe if, in the future, we go without a striker, then Gotze might stake a claim somehow. But as long as we have Gomez/Klose in the starting lineup, Ozil is king.
     
  14. F96

    F96 Member+

    Oct 24, 2002
    Skåne
    Club:
    Hannover 96
    Hummels looked bad on both Schalke goals so far.

    Edit: Didn't know he had the flu the whole week.
     
  15. timh19

    timh19 Member+

    Jul 26, 2011
    I dont understand why u blame him for the 2nd goal. It was Subotic who was nowhere near Huntelaar.
     
  16. ForeverRed

    ForeverRed Member+

    Aug 18, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    He was never fit and played with an injury, I dont know why he started.

    Also, Draxler's game is being taken to another level since moving into the middle.
     
  17. timh19

    timh19 Member+

    Jul 26, 2011
    Exactly. What a player he is turning out to be ! Should he start ahead of Oezil ? :p;)
     
  18. Dage

    Dage Member+

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Klopp outsmarted himself with Großkreutz and Hummels..
     
  19. timh19

    timh19 Member+

    Jul 26, 2011
    What's wrong with Grosskreutz ?
     
  20. Dage

    Dage Member+

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Instead of Reus? pls..
     
  21. timh19

    timh19 Member+

    Jul 26, 2011
    True that, but Kevin has been good servant for us and he hates Schalke more than anyone.
     
    bayern15 repped this.
  22. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

    Apr 14, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Well that's nice but that doesn't mean a thing when it comes to making a tactical decision.

    Notice how the match changed when Reus entered.
     
  23. ForeverRed

    ForeverRed Member+

    Aug 18, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Amazing that two of the biggest games of the season is when he messes up his lineups. Don't get it.
     
  24. Leinad

    Leinad Member+

    Jun 13, 2006
    Düsseldorf
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Großkreutz always plays bad against Schalke, might be overmotivated but in any case has he never performed well vs Schalke.
     
  25. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Not true. He had great matches vs Schalke in the last 2 seasons prior from what I can recall.
     

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