I just found this in an article and hadn't read it before or seen it posted on BS. I think the comments are interesting. I have for a while been surprised MLS is approving these 16k-19k stadiums. I know you don't want to make it too large. I think under 20k is just too small for most. Obviously there are some with small stadiums that still aren't filling them up. I guess it is really just Minnesota and KC at the moment with stadiums that are clearly smaller than their fan base. I think LAFC could have gone slightly larger (I know the capacity is over 20k). Don Garber talking about Allianz Field in MN. “I wish the stadium wasn’t 19,000 and that it was 27,000 because I think at some point we are going to be thinking of how do we make the stadium bigger,” he continued. “I think we are going to be dealing with that in a number of different markets.” "Also with the amount of season-ticket holders capped at 14,500 right now, Minnesota United has more than 5,000 on its season-ticket waiting list." https://www.twincities.com/2019/04/...-small-mls-commissioner-don-garber-thinks-so/
Understood and agreed, but looks like Don (who is a very smart business man) thinks they could have gone bigger. I am not sure if 27k would have been smart like he suggests, but with 5k waiting list I think they could have gone bigger and tried to build off their large average attendance number last year.
Future expansion (filling in the corners) will bring capacity to 24,400...slightly larger than last season's 23,902 at TCF (22,150 if you take out the 52K for the season finale). I think I trust our ownership group (who also own three of the other four major league teams in town) to know the Twin Cities market better than Don Garber, who, of course, was very reluctant in letting us retain our name.
This is not currently planned though...as far as I know. He was saying he thinks it should be bigger now. I assume it would be much cheaper to do this while building than after. I understand you are fine with the current size and that is cool. Not arguing.
No worries. I think creating the demand now will fill the expansion whenever it's done. Of course, actually putting a winning product on the field will also create / sustain that demand...and a chronically losing product will kill you...see: Timberwolves, Minnesota (aka The Most Dysfunctional Franchise in North America). Looking at you, Adrian and Manny.
I don't know about Minnesota, but it is far from clear that the stadium in Kansas City is "smaller than its fan base.". There's a reason there have never been any serious discussions about expanding CMP despite 8 full seasons of sellouts. A casual inspection shows that the number of no-shows is increasing for mid-week or bad weather games. The team has won four trophies in eight seasons and been a playoff team all eight years. Let's see how the attendance pressure holds when they miss the postseason a couple years before complaining about the stadium capacity.
...and like, didn't TFC have an insanely long STH waitlist back in their early days? How long did that last after almost a decade of being TFC? They were fortunate that their Argo-expansion came just at the moment that they happened to be one of the best teams in league history.
I think you have that backwards?.I believe TFC was already planning on expanding BMO and, since BMO is city owned, in order to get Toronto to approve the expansion, they were forced to make changes to the existing plan to accommodate the Argos.
Though what I'm asking is, how many empty seats would we be seeing today in the 30k BMO if they still looked like the teacher's pension team from their first decade? I'm not entirely sure I have the answer to that, to be honest.
I was more noting that it wasn't an Argos expansion. But that being said, it isn't a coincidence that the improvement in the team corresponded with the expansion.
But then look at Orlando. 25,500 capacity opened in 2017. Attendance 2017 = 25,028 Attendance 2018 = 23,866 Attendance (so far) 2019 = 22,943 And a lot of empty seats. Or those tarps at a 25K Red Bull Arena. And what are these "16K" stadiums you're talking about? The smallest capacity SSS in MLS right now is Avaya at 18K. It's hard to know what Miami's long-term plans are, but all other new stadiums that'll be coming online in the next few years are in the 20+ range. Plus, at least some of the smaller stadiums were designed to host a modest standing room capacity that purposefully increases their stated maximum. Children's Mercy, for instance.
Dallas was 16k during Hall of Fame construction. It is still not clear what their new capacity is. Less that it previously was but should be higher than 16k. Also I said it was only Minnesota, kc and lafc that appeared to have stadiums too small at the moment so you aren't saying anything I disagree with.
Toyota Stadium in Frisco has a capacity of 20,500: https://www.fcdallas.com/stadium/about Plenty big.
Well I was going off the article I linked which stated Dallas was 16k. I also never said there were "stadiums" that were 16k. I said there were stadiums from 16k-19k. I was wrong. https://www.twincities.com/2019/04/...-small-mls-commissioner-don-garber-thinks-so/ "Dallas (2005) — 16,000" That was my mistake for not fact checking, but the 16k was not the focus of my post. The focus of my post was Don Garber the commissioner of the league saying he thought Allianz field is too small. I agreed. If you don't that is fine, but you can take it up with him. I also said I only think MN, KC and LAFC are too small. I didn't mention Dallas and agree their stadium is plenty big enough for their current fanbase. The league has allowed 5 stadiums under 20k to be built. Columbus was reduced to under 20k later down the road. For some markets that is fine, others...time will tell. I also agree Orlando may have jumped the gun with their 25,500. If they put a good product on the field I think they will be fine. So I agree with many of you that there is a balance and it is hard to get the capacity just right. Smaller is better than too big.
I really wish we had good price data as well. Part of LAG's situation is they price for maximizing revenue, not sellouts. Toronto was the same back when they had the long waitlist, we would see lots of anecdotal evidence of them charging sky high ticket prices, which coupled with sucking for years on end helped drain that waitlist. If teams are at 75-90 percent capacity for most matches, they are not necessarily doing worse than another club selling out a similar sized stadium.
Well this might be a thing. https://www.hudsonriverblue.com/201...stadium-deal-is-done-yankee-stadium-bronx-gal Is this actually a decent site if true?
NYCFC fans have had two dream sites since day 1, this site, or near Citi Field. There has been tons of smoke lately indicating something is close to done, but nothing concrete. This article basically aggregates some of that smoke. The source they indicated, Chavez, has about as much credibility as Bob from the middle east. Doesn't mean something isn't happening, but doesn't mean it does. The site in question has all of the required transit and parking infrastructure, so it will be hard to beat.