http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/season=2004/matches/round=1581/match=1059179/index.html http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/netherlands_czech-republic/index/spielbericht/265 Dutch football stats of the match: http://www.voetbalstats.nl/opstelnedxi.php?wid=615 After the Koller goal the Czechs made a sub: defender out midfielder in.After that sub things went downhill for the Orange team, we were overrunned and Advocaat had to do something. He should have taken off vd Meyde, but it wouldnot have done much difference, as with Robben on the pitch the midfield was already under enormous pressure and the number of shots at our goal was astonishing. The Czechs had now 5 midfielders running around and when Galasek recieved a yellow, he was taken off and replaced by Heintz, a striker, thus making the line up a 3-4-3. After the red card for Heitinga, the Czechs subbed striker Koller for a defender to keep the draw. In the dying seconds the 3d goal was scored.
On the contrary of the general opinion i think Advocaat would be a good choice. Don't judge him only for the Robben-Bosvelt sub. Also van Gaal didn't qualify in 2002 at his first NT experience.
The hatred towards Advocaat after that match was totally injustified, as I many times already stated in this forum. But disappointment clouds true analysis it appears. It wasnot Advocaat, it was the failure of theOrange team to withstand the Czech storm. http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/02/22/teams-of-the-decade-8-czech-republic-2004/ "This team has the honour of winning the finest game of the decade, a 3-2 win over Holland after the Dutch had led 2-0 after 20 minutes. That night demonstrated Bruckner’s attacking instincts wonderfully. At 0-2 down and the defence falling apart, Bruckner prepared a substitution. The right-back, Grygera, was due to be withdrawn, with a winger, Smicer, set to replace him. As the change was readied, the Czechs scored, to make it 1-2. 65 minutes to go, and only a goal down. Did Bruckner still make the switch? Of course he did. That gave the Czechs the majority of possession, but they couldn’t score another. And then Bruckner went even further, taking off the holding midfielder Galasek on 62 minutes and putting on Marek Heinz, another forward. And so the Czechs had three forwards, four attacking midfielders, another winger at full-back, and two centre-backs. The most remarkable thing? The Czechs had won their opening game, whilst the Dutch had drawn. This wasn’t do-or-die: a draw would have suited the Czechs fine." I had that opinion right during the match, but it is rather disappointing that after a decade still that phantasy of 'Robben sub changed the match' is alive and fouls kicking. Look back at the match after the first Czech goal, count the possesion and shots by the Czechs and still dare to make the ongoing false accusation towards Advocaat.
Are you serious I use google translate for the first leg of translation and add in red what it should be. Some times it seems more efficient to do it myself the first time.
Yep, we should be granted a guaranteed spot for every tournement. When we are absent, the Footbal world fans always miss out on the spectacular. To the fans in the world it is a crime as not qualifying with the Orange team. I remember Lineker or that former Newcastle striker saying after the Orange match against France or Italy in the Euro that is was soccer from another planet. Such things are never said about Brasil or who ever.
There probably have been more magical moments from Dutch NTs over the years than any other. The Brazilian team of 1982 with Socrates was wonderful to watch but the Paolo Rossi hat trick did them in.
Deep down I still has hope that the new coach can help us to qualify, no matter who the coach is, as long as he gets it done. With Dick, I'll set my expectation to very low instead of low so at least the disappointed pain will not be great. Looking at his career, he probably has the most stints with NT: assistant manager (1984-1987), (1990-1992), (2016); manager (1992-1994), (2002-2004), not the longest, but he will keep coming back. Any idea what Ten Cate meant when he said he turned the offer down because he did not get the support from KNVB? Is there a certain clause missing like in Gullit case or is it the way KNVB offer contract/negotiation (different clauses to different candidates, escape clause). Is LVG taking over from Van Breukelen/acting as a technical director? We are not going to improve until this KNVB is rebuilt.
A guaranteed spot? ... be careful what you wish for ... would have been less embarrassing if Holland had skipped EURO2012 instead of the 24 team Euro ... 3 losses but Holland and Hummels gave us this instant classic though
Tricky Dick also moved around a bit ... his record managing NTs beside Holland is poor ... as Belgium manager he wasn't that great ... he only stayed on for 2 competitive ties though (WCQs 2010), won the first one but days later he lost against Estonia (TBF he couldn't have made much of an impact) ... and in under half a year he left for a big bag of Russian money ... he looked really miserable when he had to pay damages . As Russia manager he failed to survive a very weak group in 2012 ... Hiddink did much better with Russia in 2008. Also, in 2002 Hiddink vastly outperformed Advocaat with S.Korea while in 2006 Advocaat resigned after a group stage exit (with the same Korea). He wasn't that great as Serbia manager either, his previous NT job, and Serbia currently look much better. Reportedly Ten Cate didn't feel like he would receive the full support from the KNVB and he didn't like how the KNVB handled themselves during negotiations ... i.e. kicking tires, delaying, shopping around ... Ten Cate already asked Fred Rutten to be his assistant and had hoped they could start asap ... actually Ten Cate was Holland manager for half a day. http://nos.nl/artikel/2170215-ten-cate-bedankt-voor-oranje-niet-voldoende-gesteund.html http://nos.nl/artikel/2170254-ten-cate-was-een-halve-dag-bondscoach.html
http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/01/19/teams-of-the-decade-18-australia-2006/ Hiddink gets so much crap ... Australia's 2006 squad wasn't exactly top drawer but Hiddink made them look good with his gutsy style ... Advocaat with Serbia, meh, he should have done much better.
Well, Guus should have done better with the heritage of LvGaal's WC2014 team. But Guus decided to be headstrong, critizising LvG for the play and revert to the Dutch style that selection wasnot capable of doing and the results told wh o was right (LvG) and who was wrong (Guus Hiddick)
Hiddink, IMO, redeemed himself when he turned Mourinho's trainwreck of a season around ... he went on a long unbeaten streak until the starting XI was mostly the kiddies (also did well as interim CFC manager in the past) ... and he shouldn't even receive too much blame for a Strootman/Robben-less underperformance ... in the end he was stabbed in the back (Ten Cate might have learned a thing or two from how it all ended with Hiddink) ... also, hard to tell if this was indeed the case but I got the feeling Hiddink had to work in a dysfunctional environment ... KNVB/staff not giving him full support/serving their own interests/hidden agendas and players that thought everything would come easily to them after overperforming in 2014 ... it's the players that have to work/show their talent to get results in the end and they didn't look to take their duties at heart ... I don't think another manager would have fared any better ... as Blind has shown by doing even worse ... after all Hiddink has a helluva resume. Hiddink is tactically astute, a healing and stimulating people manager, very flexible compared to LVG's stubborn rigidity and sterile displays (at MUFC), great at helping young talents integrate/bedding them into the team (had plenty of work cut out for him, even after LVG, not saying LVG is bad with the kiddies though), experience at top (club) level + leading NTs ... Holland 1998 , S.Korea , Australia , Russia ... usually Hiddink overperformed and he didn't fail like LVG in 2002 with an extraordinary amount of world-class players, Hiddink puts everybody at ease (while you can't suffer LVG for too long *glances at his club history*), he's very relaxed when talking to the press (Van Gaal guarantees a good laugh though), etc. Hiddink could have been a transitional manager ... he has lots of experience and savoir-faire that's still valuable ... if the KNVB had preferred to invest in a young promising manager, instead of Blind, they could have asked Hiddink to mentor him and prepare him to take over the reigns (or introduce him to big clubs/reaping rewards later/paying it forward) ... e.g. in 1998 he helped launch Rijkaard's managerial career (IDK if there were better alternatives last time Hiddink was in charge than 1998 Rijkaard) ... TL;DR Hiddink >>> Advocaat PS play that suits the quality of the players you have ... later you start producing a quality of players for the style you have ... hard habit to break ... Belgium used to produce players suited to a dire style of football ... you need people that can break the mould ... with LVG you risk slowing down/missing out on future disruption possibilities ... with Hiddink seizing those moments (quickly) is more likely +/- ingebakken
https://www.telesport.nl/artikel/95508/voetbal/verbazing-over-gesprek-knvb-met-advocaat Besides Henk ten Cate this was the shortlist that has been discussed with Robben, Sneijder, Strootman and the directors of sports/technical commitee: ... J.Klinsmann ... R.Schmidt ... R.Koeman ... F.d.Boer ... no mention of Advocaat http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/2...erd_om_assistent-bondscoach_te_worden___.html Possibly Decossaux, marketing, overruled V.Breukelen ... sounds like Ten Cate was first lead to believe he was nailed on for the job ... then V.Breukelen was leaned on to consider Advocaat ... and when he told Ten Cate the decision wasn't final yet/they were also considering Advocaat ... Ten Cate pulled the plug ... IDK Ten Cate('s ego/character and conduct) that well but it looks more like a KNVB/V.Breukelen fvck-up.
I don't know about guaranteed spot, but it looks like USA/Canada/Mexico bid will win 2026 hosts for 48 teams, I think Netherlands and Belgium should bid for 2030 WC (add in a third country like Switzerland if needed). Perhaps Netherlands will win our first WC in 2030 if KNVB has a good plan for those U10, U11, U12 programs.
Qatar and Russia probably were two of the most corrupt bids ever ... we were up against Russia (disgustingly corrupt), Spain/Portugal (not even unusually corrupt) and England (laughably corrupt) ... not only did Garcia clear the Holland/Belgium bid (his report still not published in full) ... according to him it was even the only clean one ... we could very well have ended up spending more on ensuring transparancy/that our bid was clean than what some of the other bidding teams were spending on bribes ... only to conclude, without a shadow of doubt, that our clean bid was really clean (checked, double-checked and checked again) ... sadly, even more of our taxpayer money wasted ... not that keen to get cheated again, not that eager to bid for a 48 team monstrosity either.
@feyenoordsoccerfan ... I have a soft spot for Holland because of how you played under Hiddink in the late 90s, early noughties (what could have been if LVG didn't happen back then) ... you mention spectacular moments, well, Bergkamp v. Argentina in 1998 is one of the most memorable goals ever, all of EURO2000 was ... LVG's heritage, for me it's poisoned gift and somewhat clouded by the results themselves instead of how Holland obtained them, a tough act to follow and probably complacency among players started setting in, can you explain why it was supposed to be a boost for the next manager, even one that continued down the same path ... hard to disagree that results are important yet the scoreboard isn't the be-all and end-all ... it's a path that leads to the "dark side", conservative or at best reactive, ultra-defensive counter-attacking football, boringly cagey and low-scoring matches. To illustrate: Chile v. The Netherlands, Brazil2014 ... Sampaoli complained about the defensive style of the Dutch: "We wanted to win this game and we gave our all. We felt that the Netherlands only wanted to defend. We expected the Netherlands to go on the counter-attack with regularity and for such a long time we limited them to long shots" ... it's true that Holland prevented football from being played, 5-3-2, very compact and each time Chile tried to move the ball up Holland just booted it into the stands (purely opportunistic, antithesis of the Holland school) ... I can confirm that this reminds me of how Belgium used to play, not very elegant, the football was dire usually, not at all easy on the eye (can be fun at times though but that's in part possible because of low low expectations) ... also, it offers no guarantee into tournaments, let alone a deep run ... remember Holland's first half against Spain in 2014, before they collapsed, things could have turned out very badly, especially if you have to manage without peak Robben, like Hiddink in his last stint. https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/België_op_het_wereldkampioenschap_voetbal_1998
@Blondo I know you have a soft spot for us. And I know in 2014 from the shining Orange standards it was less and defensive. But LvG was someone capable of making that team shift in systems. Against Mexico we were playing like you described against Chili, until we had to do something and he made the team shift into 4-3-3 and from that moment Mexico had no ansers anymore. So LvG made the team rigid in its defensive capabilities out of necesity, but also built in the flexibility to react and change gears when necesary. The first "Titans clash" of the WC2014 made that cristal clear. We had to do something or Spain would destroy us after 1-0. So we did and wih that set the benchmark for the whole tournement. LvG made every weakness and every forte of each player part of his knowledge and forged an almost indestructable team. He was so confident about his work he was sure we were going to challenge for the title. I was too as you can look up in the treads about us in the WC. Much to the annoyance of the Ajax crowd I boasted "Feyenoord" was going to win the worldcup. About Guus in 1998 I'm not sure if he contributed much. The selection had an insane high quality level, that even Blind would have a hard time not to perform. The Australia story is the one in which he displayed tactical and psychological qualities to make it to the WC and perform there too. In that light it might be interesting for you to find a docu I saw on tv about him and his Aussi journy into the WC. Probably someone posted it on the internet as people do with all sorts of stuff. You will like it!
@feyenoordsoccerfan ... I think I saw that docu (I remember something about Hiddink enjoying the "bro-culture" in straya, players fighting and stuff). Also, 4-3-3 is oer-hollands 2nd nature plus it was how LVG sailed through the WCQs ... in that Japan friendly we saw a comedy of errors and afterwards 4-3-3 was abandoned ... this sort of tactical flexibility was already ingrained/ready-made (ingebakken) and as it's the international game you can't have much tactical flexibility anyway (or end up doing everything poorly/better to know how to do a little very well) ... I'd blame Mexico, especially their players, for how badly they coped with it/how unprepared they were ... could have seen this coming. https://decorrespondent.nl/1195/de-...-die-het-verschil-maakt/105528257175-4963910d This is quite a decent article and it also reflects how I see the role of NT managers ... especially as in the international game they only have a very limited amount of time with players/to make an impact on the team. Like LVG ... Algeria's manager, Vahid Halilhodzic, did his homework and it showed on the pitch as well ... he could have easily had a result against Belgium (2 late goals were needed for Belgium to take the win) and against Germany too (if those chances weren't wasted/players showing more composure in the first 45') ... very different approaches in these games, both admirable efforts ... looking back, they arguably were the best from CAF in Brazil ... considering the material that he had to work with, Vahid also was one of the best managers at Brazil2014 (mind you, I'm not taking anything away from LVG's achievement). Quite a few managers will be able to overperform with less quality, e.g. that Vahid fella ... not bad, however, overperforming with an insanely talented group is a lot harder ... the former usually is viewed as more impressive though (even by those who despise defensive football) ... top NTs struggle a lot more than top clubs as well ... it requires a rare breed of manager, leaving e.g. a Vahid type of fella exposed if he ever was trusted with the kind of responsability reserved for only a handful of managers. Holland still had a decent team in 2014 (again Hiddink had do manage without Robben in the form of his life, was always injured) and after that overperformance have somewhat regressed toward the mean ... I believe Hiddink, including in his last stint, was very capable of getting the results you'd expect/overperform and it wasn't as if he didn't try anything else (it just didn't pay off the last time round) ... compared to Hiddink's results and stylish play in 1998 (+ rolling over into 2000), I was expecting even more from Holland in 2002 ... especially as Dutch players were performing very well for their clubs and seeing how 2002 went down ... LVG wasted a much bigger opportunity in 2002 ... IMO he deserves to receive more crap for that massive failure than Hiddink for not overperforming in the conditions he had to work in last time round ... even looking at a manager's heritage from a nostalgia POV, a bit useless but hey-ho, I'd give it to Hiddink for 1998-2000 ... looking at what they leave behind for next generations, especially the ability to react quickly when opportunities arise, again for me it's Hiddink.
What happened to Van Breukelen's promise to step down so LVG can take over? Did LVG turn down too? It is time for us to move on from previous coaches (KNVB positions are fine but not head coach please). Football has changed and we need to adapt. We need new faces so I hope no more Rijkaard, Hiddink, Advocaat, Van Basten, Beenhakker, Libregts, Van Marwijk, Blind, LVG. The only 2 exceptions are Rinus the General and Johan if they are still alive.