The Jurgen Klinsmann's coaching Thread

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by bungadiri, Feb 21, 2015.

  1. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Angkor Siem Reap FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    at the pitch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dave, either you are softening up, or an imposter has seized control of your keyboard . . .

    Assuredly, WC 2014 was the highlight of Klinsi's coaching tenure. The 2013 Gold Cup, the Copa America and the 2014 Hex qualifying were also pretty solid.

    In case you need a refresher, here is the dark side:

    http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/gallery/11-awful-usmnt-milestones-set-under-jurgen-klinsmann-111516

    I might also inquire if you watched the determined spirit, the acceptance of the specific tasks and the joy and satisfaction in victory on Friday night. When do you remember last having seen that? We had lost that somewhere along the way. It was nice to see it come back so quickly.
     
  2. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    It was just a joke because they got their a$$es kicked - just like our last game under JK.
     
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  3. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You've left out the Copa Centenario run, beating 3 top teams in a row in Costa Rica (dominated 4-0), Paraguay, and Ecuador.

    And, of course, once JK had to make a decision (no JJ against Argentina), we got mauled by Argentina partly because JK has no balls and started Wondo + 10 defenders.

    And, yes, those 11 milestones (there's a longer Twitter version) are bad. That's the bad side to the JK experimentation of his tenure, and eventually, those start to take too much of a toll on results, and he gets fired.

    But we had some good milestones too. First time losing to Jamaica @ home in competitive play? We also beat Jamaica for the first time away from home in the 2014 Hex. First loss to Mexico at home in WCQ in 4 cycles (that one's worse than the positive foil here) and first win in Azteca ever. First time losing to Guatemala in 30 years in competitive play, also first time beating Germany (twice), the Netherlands, and Italy.

    Now, reason I say this is, I think people, especially MLS writers, got pissed at JK's constant slagging of the league (regardless of how many MLS players he routinely called in, and regardless of the fact that US players were never punished for going from Europe to MLS), and started jumping all over him the last 6 months of his tenure after that Guatemala loss. They miss the forest for the trees, and start concocting largely stupid stuff like the article you posted, as "reasons" why JK should be fired. But, at that point, it's people creating non-soccer reasons to fire a coach because the coach is mouthing off in a way that people don't like, aka non-soccer reasons. And we should guard against that.

    Like, with Arena, people here are worried about his history of over-reliance on veterans, for example. But so long as the results are acceptable as a whole, the pitchforks shouldn't come out on Arena's losses (unless they're really important). He's got flaws, all coaches do, but as long as he gets enough wins and isn't doing anything illegal, let him coach.
     
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  4. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I think in many ways you have nailed one of Klinsmann's greatest faults. He had no balls. If you look at many of his "greatest" accomplishments against truly good teams Germany, Netherlands or vicious environments against very good teams (Mexico in Azteca) he had nothing on the line. Against Argentina, it was a real competition and he refused to take chances. Even against Belgium in 2014 he waited until we were behind before he tried to attack and score a goal.


    Disclaimer: I am all talk. I have no balls either so don't hire me for USMNT coach after Arena!
     
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  5. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Angkor Siem Reap FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    at the pitch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Obligatory, reading is fundamental remark . . .;)
     
  6. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We had Portugal beaten ,and he told our whole front six to press up,which left our back line exposed.I remember wanting to scream at the TV and his stupid armwaving,couldn't wake the kids though.

    Germany was essentially a friendly.Belgium was a miracle that it went to ET.
     
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  7. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How about the rest of a multi-paragraph post? Particularly the bit about how the whole "bad milestone" list-making is a total crock? For example, the Mexico loss in WCQ is used to create three list items. It's cherry-picking of the highest order, which creates narratives of the stupidest and least useful kind.
     
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  8. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You can't discuss the American coaching charlatans and leave out Charlie Weiss.
     
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  9. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    December 12, 2013 is the inflection point:

    US Soccer signs Jurgen Klinsmann to a 4-year contract extension

    http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2014/03/17/12/19/131212-klinsmann-extension

    There was a lot of grumbling about Klinsmann before December 2013 by people like me, but the day-to-day flaws look better, or at least less relevant, in the rearview mirror. The 2012 phase of WCQs were underwhelming, but at this point, nobody really cares. Mexico's implosion gifted Klinsmann an easy Hex in 2013, probably the 2nd-easiest after 2005, but that cannot be held against Klinsmann. And the 2013 exile of Landon Donovan worked out masterfully, as Donovan ensured that Klinsmann didn't end his US tenure trophyless.

    After the contract extension, however...
     
  10. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  11. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Arena is having a riot sniping at Klinsmann, but he better stops before it starts coming across as petty.
     
  12. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why? As long as the team wins he can say whatever he wants.
     
  13. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    For Klinsey WC 2018 group play is where the proof is in the pudding. Whether in Europe or elsewhere. He will be ready to jump at the opportunity
     
  14. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    Netherlands should sign him up. ;)
     
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  15. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    It's called being professional. JK doesn't deserve continued swipes at him from a fellow coach.
     
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  16. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I don't really have a problem with anything that Arena said. I see it more as an honest answer shrouded in humor than an attack on Klinsmann. It is true that Klinsmann did/said so much that would be considered as unconventional (anyone can play left back) that any answer (sarcastic or otherwise) that Arena gives that is based upon conventional wisdom can often be seen as a swipe at Klinsmann if you are looking for it to be.

    Example of possible non sarcastic/joking answer. Of the left back options that we had, I felt he was the best. I did not want to play a player out of position because I want them to be comfortable in their role. (this would give at least two opportunities to accuse Arena of swiping at Klinsmann: playing people out of position and comfort zone). If Arena answers a question honestly, many will accuse him of being critical of Klinsmann whether or not it was intentional. I know he could have just said that Villafana was a little ahead of the others but I think that would have been a shot at Klinsmann.
     
  17. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
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  18. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gotta be a hundred million reasons.Eddie Lewis being one.
    Nevertheless...
    Vae victis.
     
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  19. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    C'mon, you'd do the same thing, even if that would be how it was perceived in the end. Klinsmann showed a real lack of empathy, which you acknowledged, and he was no stranger to throwing everyone under the bus to save himself, really that included the pool as a whole and Jorge himself, so it's only fair he gets a taste of his own medicine.
     
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  20. Gamecock14

    Gamecock14 Member+

    May 27, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Klinsmann said stuff that went against the grain. Pretty much any straightforward response is going to be a "snipe" at Klinsmann.

    For example, (What I imagine will be said).

    Why is Johnson playing in the midfield?
    Bruce: That is where I see him being the most effective for this team and that is where he plays at club level.

    Why did you pick X over Y for the roster?
    Bruce: because I felt he brought something to the team that Y did not.
     
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  21. AutoPenalti

    AutoPenalti Am I famous yet?

    Sep 26, 2011
    Coconut Creek
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The only thing I will give Klinsmann credit for was the resurgence of Bobby Wood and the discovery of Jordan Morris.
     
  22. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Morris came up through the Sounders academy and the U.S. Soccer Development Academy, so did Klinsmann "discover" him.
    I guess Klinsmann discovered Wood playing for his local team.
     
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  23. jaxonmills

    jaxonmills Member+

    Aug 26, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Klinsmann also "discovered" Morris when the NT scrimmaged against Stanford's squad in the leadup to WC '14, where Morris apparently did well. If anything, Morris fell into his lap. It was a bold decision to call him up, so credit to Klinsmann for that. But in reality, he simply happened to see firsthand that Morris could compete against NT players.
     
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  24. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh, boo-hoo. Comfort zone, yadda yadda. How is Jurgen supposed to get better as a coach without people reminding him in public how he messed up?
     
  25. TheLostUniversity

    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Feb 4, 2007
    Greater Boston
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is hard to speak the truth and not have it taken as a swipe at Klinsmann. Jurgen was that good.
     
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