I can pretty much guarantee Klinsmann's plans would have been destroyed by 1/3 the attrition we've experienced for this camp. There were a few unavailable for the Argentina match in Centenario, and we saw the outcome there. Same thing happened in Guatemala and in the Gold Cup. When a couple 2-3 of Jones, Cameron, Yedlin, Wood, Dempsey, etc. were out; those squads became a disaster. Depth was the strength of the pool, Klinsmann refused to tap into mostly because of the axe to grind with MLS, and it cost him. It was laughable to argue only debuting 3 MLS players outside of Jan. camp in 5 and a half years, and never starting a one, wouldn't lead to suffering eventually as we did. He was limited in January camp too of course, jerking around standouts like Hedges, and using it for split u-23 interests which of course didn't pay dividends. He would also antagonize players who dropped a level like Lichaj, Yedlin, and Williams; punishing them, in turn the team, and in turn himself for it. Being able to call upon Lletget, Villafana, and Nagbe here was a relief. They all were fine for us, or better, unlike some of the disaster alternatives that Klinsmann would employ. McCarty and Zimmerman have potential to supply that in the next game after more losses. In the upcoming friendlies and Gold Cup we could see the likes of Hedges, Roldan, Lichaj, Hedges, EPB, Glad, Manneh, etc. This is harvesting the depth finally. Not only the starting xi or stars matter, as some rationalized, as if we weren't missing out on anything. And some are viable starting xi members. They were being considered low upside because they are in MLS. But everybody there is an individual. Their levels don't define their level. Many of our starters to even standouts over the years came from there, even during when they produced a much worse standard.
Of course,your depth guys are only useful when they are being managed by someone who works with them at their level and takes their capabilities and limitations into account instead of babbling on about where people "ought" to be.
I have been one to suggest that Jurgen got more heat on these boards than he deserved, but it's hard to argue El Bruce did not have that team ready to play in ways Jurgen has not prepped the US team in a long time, And 6 goals without Bobby Wood there to bulldog the D is pretty impressive. Bruce pulled off a nice (if much more palpation-inducing) win with a similarly injured v Hondo in the '02 runup Hex, but got it very wrong in the home leg. Let's hope there is no similar letdown. But even I can't argue there wasn't a difference in attitude between the last few games under Klinsi and Bruce's re-debut.
Still, I would expect a 1-1 nailbiter had Klinsi been at the helm. It's nice to have a proper coach again.
it was so frustrating reading so many arguing that the us didnt/doesnt have enough talent. hopefully, this single game puts that idiocy to rest. there are so many players right now that are on the fringes of the roster that could potentially be good for the team. the new challenge will be finding the best options despite maybe ruffling some feathers or moving on from some vets who are entrenched. perhaps its just as difficult when you have too many options than when you barely have enough. you can still fail miserably despite having a lot of talent. witness brazil's 7-0 thrashing to germany or chiles 7-0 of mexico....its not as if mexico or brazil cant beat germny or chile. horrible results dont always speak to the talent level of a country. my biggest gripe with arena has been that he has his faves - usually "high-status vets" who probably have played for him before - and plays them over alternatives despite their performance. hopefully he can find the best combination of players even if that means he has to shift away from some established options. even better, there are ways to test the fringes without exiling the established options...something that JK didnt really do even though he did play a bunch of players all the time.
I'm gonna be interested to see Bruce's 11 when all are healthy. Got to imagine that yedlin will take back the RB spot. But where will Cam move, CB or CM. Fabian will start somewhere but has Nagbe's performance lead to Bruce moving him to LB or RM. Does Wood walk into the 11? The plan was he and Jozy up top and Clint on the bench but does Clint change his mind? Will it be wood and Clint or Clint and Jozy. Will we remain in a 4-4-2 (diamond) or change to incorporate the players out injured to more of a traditional 4-4-2
I thought everyone was rather too polite. It's an embarrassment of riches compared to Brazil 2014 when you consider Pulisic is wearing Diskerud's squad number, Morris is in for Jóhannsson, Nagbe for Davis, Wood for Green and any of Acosta, Lletget, Feilhaber, Klestjan and Zimmerman for Beckerman and Chandler.
I think that it's clear that this team plays soooo much better when they have clear, defined roles, and are put in positions that best suit their skills. Not shoehorned into spots to try and build out of the back, or thrust into random roles with little instruction. Arena decided on rather simple tactics (backline stay back, find Michael Bradley/the FB's to start the attack, front 6 push up and press the ball, close down players and force them wide, let them get crosses off if necessary), and getting players in their natural positions, and the team flourished as a result. I don't think it's because our MLS guys make us on par with Argentina, or some sort of treasure trove of hidden talent that JK overlooked, but because JK's randomness didn't maximize the talent in the pool, which he kept taking as a sign that the pool was "weak". Compared to Germany, yes, but we're more than talented enough to beat CONCACAF foes, and JK couldn't do that often enough.
I was mostly done when he left Landon off but I didn't reach disgusted til we couldn't even boss the Gold Cup under him.
Honduras looked like they had prepared for Klinsmann. That advantage is gone in Panama. Bolillo must have been watching Friday's game and tapes from the Camp Cupcake games to get up to date.
Meh, not a big deal for me. I didn't really see it as a big deal that he was antagonistic towards MLS either. He said a lot of dumb stuff. It was the fact that he did a lot of dumb stuff (roster choices, formations, tactics, positioning) that didn't get enough results that was the problem. If Arena said "F*ck BigSoccer, and f*ck gunnerfan7 especially, that guy's an IDIOT!" every game, but we won all of them, I'd have no problem with him. We're winning, IDC what he talks about. But as we all came to understand, JK tried out these crazy ideas, they didn't work, and then he'd blame the players or the player pool. Not a very good leadership tactic, and once the results stopped coming, it's ultimately a good thing that he was fired. We still need someone to maximize our player pool. It was a useful experiment to have the mad scientist in charge, but we're not so good that we can afford to do crazy experiments while achieving an acceptable baseline of performace.
A few things that bothered me most about Klinsman. First, based on his statements and his coaching style, he didn't provide guidance. He expected players to figure it out on the field. Second, the way he threw players under the bus and never took any blame himself. And that cycles back to my first issue. Because, when you don't have clear and defined roles for players on the field and expect them to figure it out on their own, you then are only setting players up to fail when you try them out in new positions they rarely play. The experimenting might not have been as bad if he: 1-Gave the players some simple clearly defined roles. The players are smart enough to understand that and work within that framework. 2-Didn't throw them under the bus...
Klinsmann always said he took full responsibility for the results then immediately blamed the players or the player pool.
lletget and villafana were both available under JK and he didnt use them.... he barely used nagbe...didnt use benny agudelo was starting in netherlands in 2014 and he didnt use him nguyen was almsot mls mvp in 2014 and he didnt use him donovan led the league in assists and he didnt use him lichaj, bornstein etc etc etc etc etc etc..... this player pool has some better options, perhaps, but not more options than 2014
The astonishing thing about how the Klinsmann saga was how obvious this all was. The man can't think or communicate clearly. He deflects blame. That combination quickly causes those who work for him to doubt his abilities, and that doubt over time is corrosive. Every empty suit gets figured out by his team. You might be able to blow smoke up the fans' tails, or the writers', or Sunil's. But that's not going to work with guys who see and hear every detail, and who live the game. There were plenty of people writing that Klinsmann had no content on Day One of his hiring. It wasn't a discovery.
Americansports have seen this character before. Bobby Valentine, Tony Granato,Rich Kotite,Bobby Petrino,dozens of CBB and CFB charlatans who disguise recruiting violations as good coaching...
Yeah, when people would say we don't have the pool to compete with the biggest and best teams in the world, they absolutely have a point. When people act like the US doesn't have the players to regularly beat most other CONCACAF teams convincingly, that's a load of crap. Panama should be a bigger test next game, but I think we should still be favored just looking up and down the squad sheets.
The Hondurans weren't nearly conservative enough for Klinsmann. They were pressing WAY too high up the pitch and leaving the back 4 totally exposed. That's not how he had us play.
Let's revisit this once we have a few more months with an actual coach. With that scam artist JK we surely could not compete. Let's chat in 4-6 months, OK?
Didn't mean to imply we couldn't "compete" in a one off game or anything like that. Because yes, a good coach can certainly get a team working as more than the sum of its parts. I'm just saying that it is indeed true that player for player we fall short of the bigger teams around the globe (Germany, Argentina, Brazil, etc...), but within our region we have more than enough talent to be considered one of the biggest teams and shouldn't ever have to act like we lack the players to play straight up against teams within our region.
I feel pretty weird writing this...but I think y'all are underestimating JK's accomplishments and overestimating his faults. The win over Ghana in Brazil was big. The other 3 matches sum up to meh. But given the advantage of playing Portugal without Pepe, and with them having a terrible GD so that they HAD to WIN, we did what we had to do. The fecklessness of our attack against Belgium still bugs me.