With the season done and dusted, thinking about next year, I think the club needs to seriously consider what the future holds. And I cant help but think that the biggest question facing the club is Wondo's future. Hes currently 33, turning 34. It can be expecting that he is on the decline and will continue to do so. Now in most cases this really actually isnt much of an issue. You just need to insure you plan for a player's decline, but Wondo is a special case, because not only has he been our best player, but hes fundamentally warped our tactics and available approaches to the game. To understand this its important to realize what Wondo is and is not. He is not a big target, and cannot really be expected to win headers or hold up play. Hes not particularly quick, so he doesnt possess much ability to get behind the defense. He is a very active forward who finds good spots and creates and converts chances. What that means is that hes a second forward, whom you have to build around. That means he needs to play with someone who not only can play as a target, but you also have to find ways to get speed around him so defenses cant push an aggressively high line. That narrows the options for a strike partner significantly. Furthermore, because hes a second forward who searches for chances based on his off the ball movement, he will not be looking to operate in the space between the defensive 4 and the midfield, meaning that it will be hard to exploit that space. Then you start looking at other parts of the field. We will play 2 holding midfielders, because they are expecting to play 2 v 3 for much of the game. A diamond style midfield is largely out, because Wondo will not help stretch the field laterally, and its hard to have a forward who is expected to be both a player who stretches the field horizontally to create width as well as plays with their back to the goal. Because we are playing a 4-4-2 with a flat central midfielder, we need players who can be 2 way creative players in those positions who can help provide width. The point I am making is that I think all our tactics this year make sense... if you build around Wondo. And it will be very hard for any new GM or coach to build a team that is much different tactically if they try to do so around Wondo. Wondo leaves quite a bit to be desired as a target forward from a possession and buildup standpoint, and as a midfielder he just isnt very dynamic on the ball away from goal, and doesnt really offer you the positional flexibility. So any 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 type formation is hard to find a spot where hes utilized well. A diamond 4-4-2 is hard because to accomodate the free attacking mid, your outside midfielders become shuttlers, players whose job it is to sort of fill in the gaps when the attacking mid roams. The problem is rather then having a second forward that the attacking midfielder can play and combine with across the field, you have Wondo who tends to only really accel working around the box. Now suppose you take Wondo out of the equation? Players like Thompson, Dawkins and Quintero can be played at the same time, and you have more opportunities for interchange and dynamic movement. If you sign an expensive attacking player, you can look for one who doesnt play much defense, because defensively their place in the formation can be the one occupied by Wondo. Possession and buildup becomes easier, because you can shift your central midfield matchups from 2v3 to 3v3. You can afford to play only 1 more defensive central midfielder also because now each player has less ground to cover. Which brings us back to Wondo. Because while this is moving to a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-4-1 league, a 4-4-2 is perfectly viable... if you have the talent at that second forward to justify it. In years past, we probably did... but right now, Wondo is just not playing as well as he has in years past. And if he cant be the kind of elite player who justifies building your team around, his tactical liabilities in the current state of the league I think raise serious questions of wether we should try to build a team without him.
They will keep him for another year or so if he keeps scoring. I'm sure even he will be fighting Father Time sooner or later. Out with the old and in with the new is what the new Quakes philosophy should be. The Quakes need to think young especially on offense. This is true of every team in the world.
Wondo's skills aren't the type to drop off dramatically or quickly. He relies on awareness and getting into the right position vs. something more physical. I think this year is a combination of factors, but mainly a lack of the ability of the team to get him the ball frequently enough. He certainly has been clutch for us, but I'd like to see an analysis of "opportunities on forward position" against previous years. I assume it is well down. The MAIN factor, is how this team will play going forward. Do Wondo's skills match up with the vision of the team? Can we get value in trading Wondo?
Good post, and that is the "Wondo conundrum". What I would do is try to cover both scenarios - a Wondo setup and a non-Wondo setup. That way you keep Wondo and all that he brings to the team but you are ready to make the switch in case you want to or he is out for any period of time. I also believe that Wondo's effectiveness will drop off only slowly. He may wind up with somewhere close to 15 goals this year - a year where he got very little service, and he also missed some games due to call-ups. So I'm not sure that I see much drop-off at all in his goal scoring. In combination play I think he has dropped off however, which makes him more of a one-dimensional player and makes him further unsuitable for a 4-5-1 kind of setup. So how to do it? As you point out, in order for the 4-2-2 to work with Wondo you need someone who not only has pace but can also play the target well. Quincy is actually not all that bad of a partner for Wondo given those parameters, but he tends to play head-down 1v1 too much and isn't a strong aerial threat in the box. So you need a bit of a rare breed forward who is fast, a good target, good in combination play, and a good aerial threat in the box. That will probably require a DP signing. Lenhart is the closest thing to that that the Quakes have had in recent years. And then for the non-Wondo scenario, as you say, a strong attacking player - one who can attack on the ground and distribute, would be great. A real CAM type of player like the role DeRo played with the Quakes in 2005 and in Houston. TT could grow into that role, but maybe you get a DP in the meantime, and TT can play wide or sub into that role. Finally, I would look to significantly upgrade the outside back positions with players who provide quality width in attack. Possibly develop Colvey into that role, but acquire some talent there as well as an upgrade to Francis / Stewart / Wynne. This frees up some of the Quakes more centrally-minded attacking mids who may be lined up at outside mid (Dawkins, TT, Quintero) to drift in while getting some overlapping attacking width from the outside backs.
This is a good topic. I find it interesting that some of us use the same type of thinking that we give Dom grief over. OK, Wondo is a withdrawn forward. So let's play him there. We need a target forward. A Lenny type would be ideal, but we should take whatever decent target we can find. Because there's more to come!! Now we want an ACM, someone like TT!! Let's play TT in that ACM spot. Oh no! We don't have enough defense you say! I don't buy this for a second. Plenty of MLS clubs do and have played a a diamond 4-4-2. There's no reason we can't, except fear of giving up goals. We also need to retool our defensive line. So here's a solution that answers all of these concerns. We play a 3-5-2. Wondo gets to play withdrawn striker. TT gets to play ACM. We play Dawkins (or his replacement) at left mid, and Alberto at right mid. Now we've got some serious attacking power. No team is going to take us lightly. Hell, we'd do OK with Adam Jahn playing target forward for us. He did well for Cowlumbus against us in a 4-5-1!! We just need to find a reasonably tall, reasonably fast forward who can play as a target. He doesn't have to be great, because we've got TT to send in through balls, which his Wondoness loves. Then we play Godoy and Alashe at the d-mid spots. We go three in the back, and the defenders do not have to attack. Wow! Problem solved. In this version of the 3-5-2, we have five guys whose main job is to attack, and five guys whose main job is to defend. As opposed to our current mess which has four attackers and six defenders. - - - - - - - NewGuy - - - - - - - - - - - - Wondo New2 - - - - - TT - - - - - Alberto - - - Alashe - - - - Godoy - - New3 - Andrés - - Wynne? - - - - - - - - Bings That's not a bad lineup at all. Just add in some off the ball movement. Move to your teammates so they don't have to make long passes. Improve our freekicks - more practice, and have TT take them, or one of the new guys. Maybe Wondo can take the freekicks? Improve our throwins - more practice, make sure a couple of guys are close enough for the thrower to reach easily, and those guys need to be in motion. This isn't rocket science. Five in the midfield will also help us to control and dictate games. A lot of MLS sides play a 4-3-3. We'd handle those teams more easily. Some MLS clubs play a 4-5-1, so those midfields would get really clogged. We'd need someone who can control the ball in tight spaces, you know, someone like TT. My point is, we don't need to blow up the whole team. We don't need to replace Wondo (just yet). We don't need some strange formation that takes advantage of him. We can do this. We might not be world beaters, but we'd be a lot better than we are. And, we need to practice playing with and without the Wonderful Wondo. And we should practice more than one formation. And if you think my scheme is more concerned with scoring goals than preventing goals, you'd be right. Go Quakes!! - Mark
Was never a DP in the way this team is structured. Too much of an opportunist for this team to rely on consistently. A poor man's Chicharito with worse technique on the ball. Thanks for your service, but your time as a starter and DP should be over.
When I brought up Wondo and player age curves I was told they didn't apply to Wondo as he is an outlier, and that he was good to go until at least age 36 when he might start tapering off...
Wondo probably has some value left as far as other MLS teams are concerned ("11 goals 2 assists, that's pretty much the same season he had in 2013!"), but for those who are watching him every game, he is contributing close to nothing aside from those few moments where he scores a goal. He still has that "right place at the right time" ability but he's just not very involved in the game usually (his 61 shots are his lowest since 2009). Often he looks like one of the worst players out there, just old and slow/tired and a bit lost at times. I think the Quakes should trade him to a decent team that needs some goal-scoring help, if he can manage double digit goals for an awful offensive team like the Quakes, he can be a useful piece elsewhere even if it's as a super-sub. Trade him for some young talent that can be a key piece of the Quakes roster for the next decade (do the same with Bernardez and Wynne while they still have value). Wondo has had a pretty incredible career, he deserves a chance to win MLS Cup somewhere and that's not going to happen with the Quakes, so they would be doing him a favor. Once his MLS career is over, maybe they can find some role for him within the organization, and put a Wondo statue up in front of Avaya Stadium.
I would pair Ceren with Godoy, he has a greater work rate and can cover more ground than Alashe, and we would need that from our 2 d-mids to make up for only having three in the back. Though I like Imperiale, I am not sure he has the physical presence we would need in that position. Need a youger, faster version of Big Vic.
Wondo is still producing at a high rate. There hasn't been much drop-off in his goals per minute, and of course he is playing every single minute that he can, so the "minutes vs. age" graph thing is, so far, not applying to Wondo at all. Hah, yeah, the old "all he does is score goals" argument! Nice! Get rid of da' bum! Wondo has always been slow, he can't really win headers, except for the ones that result in goals, his passing is pretty good, he is OK on defense but his slowness doesn't help much there. I think he has dropped off a bit in general play, but the goal scoring trumps everything. I don't think he'd still be getting USMNT callups if he couldn't play anymore. Klinsi has him there, and it's not just to be a cheerleader.
I'm still not sold on Darwin. He has plenty of brain farts. He loves the long pass, and sometimes is way off. His fouling is every bit as bad as Alashe, maybe worse. He's had one really good game for us. A younger version of Big Vic would be ideal. So maybe: Imperiale - - - NewVic - - - Wynne? But we keep Wondo for at least another season or two. And when he retires, we need to keep him in the organization. Go Quakes!! - Mark
Mark teams that play a diamond 4-4-2 actually have their outside midfielders play as shuttlers, who are sort of a cross between a holding midfielder and an outside midfielder. They require a lot of creative and width play from not only the ACM but their second forward as well, which isnt Wondo's strength. The problem we would find with a diamond is that Wondo and the CF would tend to occupy the same space, and the ACM would have too much to do creatively, since the shuttlers arent really creative attacking players, but more opportunists.
Oh! Good thing I said we should play a 3-5-2 then. And can we please lose the obsession with playing defense first? If your defenders are not required to attack, if they stay home a lot more, then you aren't exposed on the counter, whether you're playing a 4-4-2 or a 3-5-2. Our offense is crap all. What I'm suggesting is that we both get more attacking players on the field, and that we rely on attackers to attack and defenders to defend. We complain that Wynne isn't good enough going forward. Well, if he didn't have to go forward very often we can reduce that problem dramatically. (bigly?) Why on Earth would you expect your outside defenders to be good attacking players? When you have actual attacking players on the roster?! Our problem has been lack of service to our forwards and lack of creativity up front. SO, let's play some actual attacking players (who do still have to defend on the transition) and let's keep our defenders at home. What good are your four defenders in a 4-4-2 if you have one or both of them pushed up attacking? When you lose the ball, you're exposed in the back. I'm talking about an actual sea change in our approach to playing soccer. I don't want to tinker, I don't want to modify. I want to throw the old strategy and tactics in the garbage and start over fresh. Yes, it will take some getting used to. Yes, we'll have a tough beginning to the season. BUT, continuing to do the same stupid things over and over has gotten us into a race for the wooden spoon. How freaking great is that?! We are failing. We have been failing for the last four years. (Possibly minus the end of the '13 season.) We can't just play harder, and we can't rely on outmoded thinking. We have got to change. Go Quakes!! - Mark
I tend to agree that Wondolowski's overall effectiveness has really started to drop off. He had a long stretch of games where he was really bad and it was actively hurting the team. My hope was that Kinnear would bench him for a spell to both rest him and allow the team to figure out how to play without him. Aside from his fruitless stints with the National team, he was pretty much always on the field, regardless of situation or how well he was playing. That is a problem. No player should be out there just because. Now, of course, that isn't to say a lot of the blame shouldn't be put on the coaching staff, since it should. But, as should be no surprise, Wondolowski is declining. He's aging, his lack of pace is more noticeable, his ability to have high energy over 90 minutes is lowering, it's just what happens. He's no longer a DP, correct? So while he's one of the most expensive players, he's not the most expensive. It all comes down to whether or not he's worth it as a part time player now. I really think his future role is as part time starter, part time substitution. Maybe start him for five or six games next season, depending on form, then start transitioning him into a sub as the season goes on to spare his body and allow the team to form an identity without him. I also wouldn't be upset if he were traded. My only fears there would be that the front office doesn't manage to maximize his trade value.
Do what we did with Corrales with Wondo and make him a player coach, pay him minimum as a player and make the rest up as his coaching salary.
I'd prefer not to trade Wondo. I also expect that he does not want to be traded. Instead, I suggest that we use him as a supersub, with only spot starts. I still want us to play a 3-5-2, and I still want us to sign new strikers (I'd keep Henok as a sub at least) to replace Adam, Chad, and Marc, and Quincy until at least June or July of next year. I think that signing new strikers would help us to open up our offense more and play in a different style. That said, we have not made good use of Wondo this year. We haven't gotten him the ball very much, in large part because our enemies know how we play and can defend against us easily. How many through balls has Wondo seen this season? Do we have any other scoring threat on our squad? We just aren't very clever. Adam Freaking Jahn has scored two goals in 209 minutes for the Crewless. My point is that with a more creative offense, Wondo's goals will increase. Also, you're talking about trading away our only double digit goal scorer. I realize that many here think that Wondo distorts our team, but that doesn't have to be the case. If we were less pig-headed, we could do more with the guys that we have. Go Quakes!! - Mark
And yet Wondo is again scoring about 40% of the team's goals. He has never been fast, he has never been able to win headers in midfield, he has never been able to beat players 1v1. I would say he is declining a little in those areas, but it is not really affecting his productivity, and I see no difference in his ability to play hard all game. His salary is no different BTW. The non-DP status is due to a buy-down. You'd be crazy not to keep him, but I also think that you should know how to play w/o him, for a few reasons. 1) He may be out on nats duty or get injured, 2) you will have more variety in your attack and be less of a one-dimensional team.
While I agree with you, that's the problem with having a club legend who is aging, it's difficult to transition them out of their role as "automatic starter"... see also Wayne Rooney right now with both England and Manchester United. He's done more for this team than anyone, he's really supposed to sit on the bench for Amarikwa? And if the team isn't very good, how can we not play him, that's even more insulting. The dynamic changes if he's traded to a quality team, he's new and as an older player being a substitute makes sense, he can be Blaz Perez for some team that just needs a bit of help to challenge for trophies. And the Quakes not only get some value in return, but they look like the good guys for letting him finish out his career with dignity instead of creating unnecessary drama when he's having to sit on the bench for a mediocre Quakes team. Look at Liverpool and Gerrard, he's off playing in LA and getting one last chance at silverware, and the fan controversy died down a lot faster with him gone than it would have if he was still there but not being played.
Actually, I think we have to look this beyond just Wondo to some basic principles of successful long-term team building: -Is this team good enough to win trophies in the short term? -NO. -Rebuild by trading all players over the age of 30 with any value (Wondo, Bernardez, Wynne, Salinas) and releasing those who don't (Barrett, Francis).
To Dom's credit, I think that he tried last year covering both scenarios and it didn't work. While possible, it's very difficult and not capable with the current roster. Probably not even very likely with a lot of turnover next year. I agreed with most of the posters here who are open to options on adjusting his role or trading him. Too many times I have watched our team try to force balls to Wondo over the years. Our offense can't go through one player. Wondo has about two more years realistically. Are we willing to bet that a new GM and coach can get their act together in one year to make it work while keeping Wondo for a second year. Need to start asking the hard questions.
I think we just need the right kind or forward to be paired with Wondo, as I mentioned. It is not easy to find, but "a rare breed forward who is fast, a good target, good in combination play, and a good aerial threat in the box". And then for the no Wondo scenario, I think there are a number of players now who could help the team build up attacks on the ground (Dawkins, TT, Quintero, Cerén, etc. And then you add a Valeri-like DP (easier said than done of course).
I think that it's a remote option. The skill set that you described is for a player who would be playing in a top league in the world. It would be costly and unlikely for us to find a player of that caliber. Most options are either too slow or can't pass. Both are needed to open space for Wondo and to play off other players.
Lenny is the last Quakes player to more or less fit that bill in my mind. He doesn't have to be elite in all those categories, but to just more or less check the boxes. So, no, I don't think it is that remote of an option, but there are not many players with that combination of skill set.
I think we can find a target guy who will be good enough. Remember that we will have someone (TT!) attacking up the middle at least some of the time and sending in through balls for both strikers. We will have more players in the attack, and they will be looking for open options, not just taking the ball down the line and crossing. Also, we should have improved off the ball movement. Even with most of the same players that we have now, we can do better than we have been. There are so many things wrong with our team that improving on the basics will make us much better. Better off the ball movement, showing for each other. More balls played on the ground. More possession. An actual ACM. Better free kicks, corner kicks, and throwins. All of these can be improved with better practice, more practice, and better coaching. We don't need an EPL quality player. We can find a target striker in Eastern Europe, or South America. We might even find one in the college ranks here. Buck up lads! We can do better! Go Quakes!! Fire Dom!! - Mark
The team should always be trying to upgrade positions, certainly, but I am quite interested to see what Goitom can do over the course of a season. He's had very positive effects on games with his recent playing time. He can play as a target, but has shown some quality combination skills as well as pretty keen situational awareness. I think he might be one of those signings that turns out to be worth more than what they paid and I'm hoping he doesn't become collateral in the regime change. I also want to comment that you can see quite distinctly how much better Wondolowski is when he has players supporting him. Dawkins was much more of a threat against Salt Lake, which helped open up space. Thompson allowed for a lot more movement. Alashe and Godoy actually worked pretty well together (although Alashe's habits of breaking up plays only to put the ball back to the opponent is frustrating). As the team moved forward as a unit, distributed the ball more effectively and forced Salt Lake into committing defensively, there was suddenly a lot more room for Wondolowski to roam around and find pockets to fill. It's a shame he didn't manage to score thanks to Rimando's efforts. But Wondolowski will need that kind of support more and more as time goes on as he will start to get fewer chances and possibly decline a bit in his ability to put those chances away.