Well I think most fans would agree that after the Sweden game it's time for the coaching staff, the players, the DFB to sit back and make some important decisions. 60 beautifully and imposing minutes followed by 30 disastrous minutes raise many question marks. I think there at least three important points that I will discuss below. Captain Lahm is an outstanding player, but he's no captain. Many would say that the captain thing is overrated, but I don't agree. The mental aspect of the game is very important and a good captain can make a difference. Looking at those 30 disastrous minutes Lahm didn't do anything and let the team fall to pieces. That's not acceptable. Low and the coaching team I've been always a supporter of Low and he has done great things. However after a game like this the coach also must take responsibility. I don't think that he should be fired, but some pressure on him would do good. He must take most risks and needs to reconsider some of his decisions. The tactics It's clear that one of the biggest problems of this team is that it has lots of attacking power, but defence is always shaky at best. Low is sticking to the 4-2-3-1 system, but it really needs to be considered. A system that includes the best available players is needed and Low must be much more flexible on that. The current crop of players can be grouped in the categories: guaranteed starters, starters and bench players. Different people would have different choices, but mine are below: Guaranteed starters (if fit always will start) Neuer - he does some stupid mistakes, but still is the best and his place is guaranteed for the moment. Lahm - World class full-back, nothing else needs to be said. Schweinsteiger - the midfield maestro of the team. Absolutely needed. Kroos - complete midfielder, great shot, great technical skills, combines well with others and also can defend (a few still keep saying that he can't defend, but it's not true at all) Ozil - great vision, great shot, the center of attacking moves Reus - absolutely talented, can decide games with ease Muller - always dangerous, can score any time, does not shy away, hard working, create lots of space. Starters (can fill the remaining start positions and can replace any of the guaranteed starters) Badstuber - very good and intelligent defender, however too slow to be a guaranteed starter. Hummels - great potential, but still does too many mistakes Howedes - versatile defender, great potential also, makes few mistakes Khedira - very solid defensive midfielder, but lacks on attack and technical skills Podolski - can be very dangerous, but too one-dimensional. Now better options are possible Schurrle - skilled, dangerous, super-sub Gotze - super talented, still has to learn but soon may also be a guaranteed starter L. Bender - versatile player that can play anywhere Klose - great player, but near the end of his career. Bench (would play only in special circumstances) Zieler, Adler or Ten Stegen as goalkeepers Mertesacker, Boateng, Schmelzer and Westermann in defence Marin, Holtby, S. Bender, Gundogan, Draxler in midfield Gomez in attack Basically this means that 7 players are fixed and there are 9 other players for 4 positions. In the 4-2-3-1 position, there's basically only one option: ---------------------------Neuer------------------------- --Howedes------Hummels----Badstuber---Lahm- ----------------Schweini---------Kroos----------------- --------Muller-------------Ozil---------------Reus----- ----------------------------Klose------------------------- Looking at the available players it's clear that the above one is not the best combination. A switch to 3-4-2-1 would offer much more flexibility. ---------------------------Neuer------------------------- -----------Howedes------Hummels----Badstuber--- Muller---------Schweini---------Kroos---------Lahm -------------------Ozil---------------Reus--------------- ----------------------------Klose------------------------- or ---------------------------Neuer------------------------- ---------L.Bender------Hummels----Badstuber---- Muller---------------Schweini------------------Lahm ---------Ozil------------Kroos-----------Reus---------- ----------------------------Klose------------------------- or ---------------------------Neuer------------------------- ---------L.Bender------Hummels----Badstuber---- Muller--------Schweini------Khedira---------Lahm ---------Ozil-----------------------------Kroos---------- ----------------------------Reus------------------------- or even ---------------------------Neuer------------------------- ---------L.Bender------Hummels----Badstuber---- Muller---------Schweini--------Kroos-------Lahm ---------Ozil-------------Gotze-------Reus----------
I dont see how kroos is a guaranteed starter. My lineup: -----------------------------------Neuer----------------------------------- -------Boateng---------Hummels---------Howedes----------Lahm ---------------------Schweisteiger-------------Khedira----------------- ------Mueller--------------------Ozil---------------------Reus----------- ---------------------------------Klose------------------------------- Guys like Kroos and Khedira can be super subs I also think we should recall Gonzalo Castro.
Of those options it's clearly the 4-2-3-1 with a Schweini/Sami double pivot, but I'd like to see us try a 4-3-1-2 or a 4-3-3 when Ozil can't go.
He also offers a lot less, his ball winning ability, physicality and ground coverage are vastly inferior, n with quarterback at the 6 already, a guy like Sami is needed.
If we want real ball winning ability, physicality and ground coverage then one of the Benders should play and not Khedira. Khedira is neither a creative CM nor a real destroyer/good cover for Schweinsteiger and everyone should know this by now but obviously people ignored his games against Argentina and Austria because there was clearly not much to see of those abilities.
What? Sami was one of our better players until the own goal in the argentina game. And while I like the Benders to, they can't do what Khedira does, they may be able to get the ball back as well, but they do not join the attack as well and as reliably as Khedira does. He's one of the few true top class box-to-box midfielders in the game right now, Yaya's a cut above, but I'd take Khedira over Marchisio and Ramires. The benders, bless they're hard working hearts, just aren't able to contribute as much to the attack. As for covering for Schweini, when Schweini does move forward Khedira does a great job of covering for him, but seeing as schweini's the quarterback of the pairing, it's usually he who's further back to cover for his partner, that's what separates Schweini from Kroos, and pretty much everyone else in our midfield, he influences the game from further away and doesn't need to get up around the box to contribute to the offense as it's his distribution in the build up and precision with his long balls that make him a stud.
Khedira is absolutely terrible in the attacking third. His technique is just far too poor to play at the pace, and in the tight spaces that our attackers do. The benders are significantly better technically and have better passing skills. Adding their superior defensive capabilities and you have who I think should be starting.
I don't think that's even close to being the case. The Benders are young so the future is bright, but right now Sami is more than a class above.
I disagree wholeheartedly, but I don't have the blind devotion to Sami that many posters on this message board seem to have.
Sometimes I have to wonder if people are just joking if they write such stuff. How about some "facts" (based on the league stats of the last season). Defensive qualities: Khedira / Lars Bender / Schweinsteiger / Kroos Tackles (avg. per game): 1.6 / 3.5 / 2.4 / 1.9 Interceptions (avg. per game): 1.1 / 3.4 / 1.6 / 1.4 Clearances per game: 0.8 / 0.9 / 1.0 / 0.2 So Khedira is even behind Kroos when it comes to core areas of the defensive game while Lars Bender is one of the best in the world when it comes to defensive play as CM/DM. Passing qualites: Khedira / Lars Bender / Schweinsteiger / Kroos Key passes per game: 0.5 / 0.9 / 1.3 / 1.9 Avg. passes per game: 36.5 / 45.8 / 72.6 / 56.8 Pass success: 87% / 82.6% / 86.4% / 87.6% Accurate long balls per game: 1.4 (38 out of 50) / 2.1 (60 out of 77) / 8.7 (191 out of 233) / 6.4 (198 out of 236) Accurate throughballs per game: 0.1 (4 out of 8) / 0.1 (2 out of 4) / 0.2 (4 out of 11) / 0.3 (8 out of 24) I won't even bother with offensive stats because it's obvious that Schweinsteiger and Kroos would also destroy Khedira in that area of the game. Looking at these stats I can only laugh about claims like "his distribution in the build up and precision with his long balls that make him a stud". Schweinsteiger and Kroos play nearly 5 times the number of long balls than Khedira does and with no worse success rate. Not to mention that their whole passing game is in another league and that even L. Bender is offering more for Leverkusen in that area despite playing at a club who sees less much of the ball than a player at a club like Real could. But what really stands out is that Khedira's defensive stats are simply average. I will admit that he covers more ground than Kroos but then it's also a simple fact that Schweinsteiger and L. Bender also cover more ground than Khedira. You could also take a look at Khedira's EC stats, it's no coincidence that in the game vs Italy even Kroos won a lot more duels and that in all games before Khedira also won just an average amount of them while Schweinsteiger was much more active in this area. It's really funny what one decent WC and playing for Real does for your reputation.
Khedira terrible in attacking third? Nonsense. That's why he's so dangerous; because he is the only one of our midfielders who can be trusted to cover in midfield but also link attack. He's not Iniesta or Yaya nor does he have their technique but if anyone has bothered watching him at Madrid, we know the off the ball runs and through passes he is capable of making when the players ahead of him are instructed properly. In any case, there is no reasonable argument to start Kroos ahead of Khedira in a two man midfield. Simply put Khedira is better suited in this role and brings more to it than Kroos. Again, under pressure one is far more reliable than the other no matter the passing statistics and whatever skills. This is a sensitive formation built for defenders who are better staying back. Kroos is far too delicate a player to be given these responsibilities and would much rather go froward and not track back when given the chance as opposed to a more high energy Khedira. This is simply a matter of watching the two players and understanding their strengths. Kroos' strength is between midfield and attack, stationary. Khedira eats up the space he plays in, essential to approaching games where the opposition is pressuring us. Kroos' finesse is nice but NOT in a two man midfield. We have seen this too often now to not pay attention to. If we want to continue attacking and disregarding retentive and defensive responsibilities in high pressure matches then we can start with Kroos because he is extremely valuable going forward. Otherwise it's just as reckless as playing Schweinsteiger on the flank. This is why a 4-3-3 would suit him better as has been discussed before but we can't continue having this argument between the two players if Loew decides to stick with the 4-2-3-1. If anyone can give a logical argument for why Kroos should be made to play a position that he is simply not naturally suited to, and start ahead of a genuine CM, I'd love to hear it.
The argument isn't for the inclusion of Kroos over Khedira, but Bender who is better in virtually every aspect of the game than Khedira is. I suggest you read Leinad's post, because he spelled out exactly how few offensive passes, like through passes, that Khedira successfully completes.
What a bullshit hypothetical statement. You can't even keep your anti-Khedira bias in control here. Chill out. I like Bender but let's be honest. One plays for Madrid in what you can argue is in one of the two top leagues in the world and Champions League with dozens of other World Class players around him, the other plays for Leverkusen. I like Bender and desperately want him integrated more but let's be realistic here. It's nonsense to point out statistics like that. In this case we might as well ignore the fact that Khedira is not the primary creator in his side and has at least four to five players ahead of him who he has to lay the ball off to to make those passes and create those statistics. At Bayern Kroos is already the man and Bender, since Vidal's departure has been Leverkusen's - even ahead of Augusto now. The latter still needs some more experience to show his mettle I would say. Amazing how we need to have this discussion after Khedira's excellent Euro's where he wasn't only our best player by a mile but he showed the leadership no other player did. This is so stupid I am close to arguing that if Khedira had white skin, blonde hair and blue eyes we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Khedira was the best player on germany during the euros. The guy should start every game with a fit schweinsteiger.
Not to going to touch the race thing, but I do agree with the other assertions about Sami v Bender. Stats can be very misleading due to role, as Sami is the energy on a team full of elite creators and so isn't going to be playing the final ball often. He's great at linking that team though, and making runs to support and create space for the creators. Which does at a higher level than Bender, and is more accustomed to playing with great players. This isn't to shit on the Benders as I'm a big fan and honestly wouldn't mind seeing Lars, Schweini and Sami in a three man midfield with no striker ahead of Reus-Ozil-Muller, at least for our matches against elite possession sides like Spain and Italy. But Khedira's clearly the superior player right now, and with Kroos' form I'd rather see him integrated into a 3 man midfield if Loew were to mix things up.
People need to stop using the bullshit excuse that he plays for Madrid, so he must be amazing. Valdes was part one of the best teams of all times that racked up titles like no tomorrow, not even Barcelona fans (logical ones) would place him in the top 5. It's pretty hilarious seeing Kroos have better defensive record than Khedira though, mr. ok at everything but not great at anything. Well at least there is his amazing "movement" and "magical creator of space for others" as the few stats that people can linger onto.
I'm not sure if you're just not reading right, but the argument is that Sami playing for Real limits his opportunities to make key passes and nab assists, not that it's what makes him great.
Maybe you missed this Something I often see with pro-Khedira points. Anyways if you want to make a proper comparison, look at Busquets and what he offers. At the end of the day I find such an excuse a poor one that there's so many good players that he doesn't have to. He was average with Stuttgart as well offensively bar a very select few through balls here and there. Lars is a much, much better player offernsively though his brother is probably around the same level as Khedira offensively (in other words.. meh), he is much better defensively.
Why isn't it a good point? Playing for a club like that with better players, against better players raises your level? And guess what? He's been doing extremely well so far. That's certainly a just reason to rate someone isn't it?
I think the race issue is just plain stupid, that being said, I think detractors of Khedira share that same attribute. In my opinion, there is no doubt that Khedira and schweini should start, and if that position is to be relinquished, it should be given to one of the benders. Also, Kroos/Gotze are amazing talents, but they get the bench for now. I think if we played with the same attitude as in 2010, focusing on defensive structure while also playing someone like Reus to emphasize our attacking prowess, we can go very far.