The Fight

Are you serious? I'm not trying to convince anybody here, in fact, one of my first posts on this board was that it's not my aim to impose my views on you. You guys however are putting up a very unfair argument, and that is mainly because you are still bitter about the game, and you're somehow trying to justify your exit.

 

What credit, that they played like crap and having not even touched the ball in extra time, praying to their lucky stars for a PK shootout and winning on a cointoss?

They were lucky as hell, Nothing more. And in a stadium with your own fans, that is nothing short of embarrassing.

Now to Manchester: You guys were at home and acting unsportsmanlike. Maybe if you'd kept quiet, we would have too. Shame on your people and your team.

 

Then why don't we agree to disagree and you can be on your merry way already? There's no point in you arguing your point here unless you ARE trying to convince people.

I am convinced your people weren't saints and provoked us rather than shutting the hell up, and letting the game run its' course. We wouldn't attack for no reason, and again, in a stadium with your own fans, your boys should be setting an example, not promoting the kind of bad sportsmanship Germany is now in my mind notorious for.

 

You're being completely disrespectful as a fan, even to the more sensible visitors who'd like nothing but a mature and civil discussion. If this is all that you will reiterate then maybe you should be ashamed of yourself, you should take note from the more respectable posters on this board, you know who they are.

I really don't understand what you mean when you say we were acting unsportsmanlike. Ultimately you're just trying to find a way to justify your exit and soothe your wounds, something any bad loser would do, I'm sorry to say.

 

again, you really have no argument here, if the Germans were so unsportsmanlike, why didn't they do the violenty attacking first? Hell, if your guys are so civil in the first place, why did they have to resort to violence when all they faced was Borowski's hand gesture? Maybe it's because that's the nature of some of your players, Heinze and Cufre for example are notorious for being hotheads like that. And it takes something like a WC quarterfinal exit to set them off.

 

And you fail to see the game for what it was. Do you really watch soccer often enough? The PK shootout was completely non-representative of who truly controlled the match throughout most of the game. PK shootouts don't reflect on the game, they are simply a means to an end in order to get a winner. A crappy way to decide a match, but a necessary evil. If they truly WERE representative, the game itself would consist of nothing but people shooting one on one with the goalie for an hour and a half. No disrespect meant, you truly were not the better team. Plain and simple. Enjoy your win, congratulations.

 

Borowski could have been a true sport and let it end with us licking our wounds peacefully. But he was looking for trouble, and he got it. Period. End of story.

You aren't a saint. No one is. I am not saying kicking someone in the nuts isn't wrong, I am saying leave the loser alone. Don't fuck with people when they're down. In other words, be a gracious winner, not a smart aleck.

 

yes I do watch soccer often enough, again, no need to throw around insults like that. Also, you do not need to repeat that Argentina played better, I think every reasonable German fan knew that Argentina has more quality, I believe you even repped me for saying that a couple of days before the game itself.

However, when Argentina scored, Germany knew they had to step it up and for that moment until the end of the game, Germany controled most of it, they pushed everything they had upfront and whatever chances Argentina had they couldn't finish. Peckerman's bad tactics also had something to do with it, and that's one reason you guys couldn't get a goal in extra time.

Argentina should know better than to take Germany to penalties, they are arguably the best team when it comes to that, history proves that. You can say it's a cointoss situation, but if you're smart about progressing, then you don't want to face Germany on penalties. They are clinical finishers and always have the best Penalty stopper. In fact, before the shootout, Lehman predicted which way each player would shoot, and he wrote it down, and guess what, he got all of them right.

 

How do you know your players weren't taunting ours during penalties. I already wrote my reasons for believing that, you don't have to believe it, but it certainly makes more sense than Borowski simply started shit for no reason.

 

I have to agree here...since when is putting your finger up to your mouth as a "quiet" gesture some kind of insult?? Since when does this give you the right to go out and kick the sh1t out of someone? My mom used to do this to me, the librarians in school used to do this to me, and every now and then, my wife does this to me...I mean c'mon...is this provocation in Argentina? If someone tells you to "shut up" do you feel like your "macho" image has been tarnished? Is your manhood threatend? Maybe if they would have shut up in the first place, and stopped acting like "boludos", there wouldn't be the need to tell them to shut up. And no, I don't think the Germans where heckling from the bench either...they didn't need to. Lehmann had his cheat sheet in his sock, remember?

 

There wasn't a single insult in that post, first of all. We lowered our game in the second half, yes. Klose kneed our goalie in the ribs and it ended up costing us a replacement, and Pekerman screwed up in his choice for subs.
The game in extra time was complete domination of the ball from Argentina, and unfortunately we didn't finish. Even with our bad subs, we still hounded your goalpost while Germany didn't have a single attack on us. They were all just hoping that time would end quickly so they could win it on PK's with the crowd pulling for them. Nothing more. We weren't taking it to PK's, we played to score until the last minute. You lucked out, plain and simple. We failed to finish, but we dominated. That is the truth of the match.

Pk's are an unfortunate and necessary copout. Nothing more.

 

You guys shot first. All the more reason to hound and taunt the opposing team.
When you're winning, you are in an easier position to taunt the opposing team to choke, as the other team still has to equalize. That is plain common sense.

You guys weren't saints. Neither were we. I am sure Premier wants to villify us, and that's fine. Believe whatever you need to in order to sleep at night.

Move on. Be a gracious winner, stop poking our wounds.

 

Instead of blatantly discrediting Germany for playing with heart when they by no means have the quality individuals Argetina has, you should blame Peckerman more. You had a goal lead and you let it slip, then in extra time, you couldn't finish, Instead of thinking it as lucky, maybe you didn't try hard enough, maybe even then Peckerman knew he got his tactics all wrong.

And you're still too stubborn to admit that the penalty shootout against germany isn't just a copout. Argentina should have known what it's gotten itself into. Why don't you blame Ayala and Cambiasso for those very indifferent penalty kicks?

 

Holy hell, nobody is poking anybody's wounds, if anything you and in da soup started this with your bitter anti-german rants trying to justify the loss. I haven't yet said anything to poke your wounds, if disagreeing with you that Germany started the fight is poking your wounds, I apologize, but there is no way in hell I'll believe it.

And your logic doesn't make sense. Shooting first and being up by no means fuels anybody to taunt the others. If anything the reverse is true, being down in penalties, and running high on emotions, the Argentines were more incensed to do the taunting. FFS who has the worse etiquette problem? Borowski and Mertesacker or Cufre and Heinze? yea I thought so.

 

No one is blaming anyone. We failed to finish, that doesn't mean we weren't trying with all our might to score. It simply didn't happen. You guys never almost never saw the ball in Extra time! That isn't Germany "playing with heart" that's cowardishly awaiting for the favorable prospect of a PK shootout. At no point was Germany trying to hurry the ball to our side, it was all the opposite. You didn't play with heart in Extra time, you didn't NEED to.

Again, the PK shootout was a separate entity from the match itself. It in no way reflected the match, it was just a simple means to an end.

Don't puff yourself up just because you won, sheesh.

 

No, when you're ahead, you naturally don't want the opponent to put in the equalizer, it makes a LOT more sense for the people ahead to taunt, not the opposite, when you're stressed to equalize. It's like saying "We did it. Now see if YOU can do it!" When you're behind, you've no time to taunt. You should rethink YOUR logic in this respect.

Borowski was out of line, and so was Cufre. I am not taking THAT away from you, I agree that kicking someone in the balls is just plain wrong. But why incite it ANYWAY? can you not contain your own emotions in a dignified manner?

If you're winning, shup up and set an example. Period. You didn't. You guys never do, and I see this in your general attitudes anyway.

 

Germany was tired, as any team would be after 90+ minutes of football. They however defended and did as much as possible in extra time. To simply say that they stood back awaiting the shootout is not only disrespectful but ignorant.

At this point, continuing this debate with you will only result in a string of recycled posts. And the way you're subtly trying to push my buttons and putting words in my mouth will only result in more negative reactions. I have a suggestion for you - take off time from this board get over this bitterness.

 

Argentina were tired as well, that didnt stop them from attacking.

This is not a wind up or attack, but from my point of view, Germany were playing for a PK shoot out.

 

There IS no disrespect meant. Are you so puffed up by the victory that you can't see you did, indeed play to PK's and not to score?

We were tired as hell too, but we still pressed to score. You guys held on for a PK, and it worked in your favor.

I am not putting any words in your mouth, if you feel offended, it's because you want to be. I've more reason to feel offended, as the flag incident still remains unresolved, and the other general rudeness i've been subjected to here.

 

Again with the stereotyping, wow, our general attitudes, you must be a cultural expert.

You know in what case the taunting can start? When you're team is down and out and the only way you can cope with it if you can't behave civilized is to taunt. No wonder that when it was 3-2 to Germany already and Borowski about to make it 4-2, the Argentines most likely felt defeated already and the only other reaction would be resorting to taunting. Again, Argetines are known to be more hotheaded and emotional than Germans but you know what? ******** it, as I said in my previous post, this will only go in circles. Let's drop it already.

 

and what would that be please?

 

Have you not been reading? I already posted this earlier.

You see, I'm in Frankfurt right now, and I had my Argentina jersey on all day of the match, and I also have a huge AFA logo tattooed on my arm.

The day OF the match, all I got was laughs and cars honking at me and stopping right behind me for people to stop and scream obscenities. I know almost no German, but I know what "Du" and "Scheisse" mean perfectly.

The next day I got dirty looks and a couple of jerks at the Trinkhalle were staring intently at my tattoo. Kind of rude, really. I didn't feel welcome, that's for SURE.

 

but you see, the taunting started AT PK's, not just immediately after the game was won by Germany, so it makes no sense for a losing team to taunt.

The taunting was from the get go, not afterwards. ALL humans are hotheaded when a great prize is involved in which you can potentially lose the chance to vie for it.

Germans are no saints, and neither are we.

 

I thought you were referring to the treatment within the boards. I'm sorry to hear that but don't let that misguide your opinions about Germans in general. I live in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood here in NYC, and I lived here for eight years, for all that time, I've gotten shit from them for not being one of them and it hasn't stopped since, doesn't mean that I think everyone from South America is like that.

Also during WC time, you always see the idiots coming out, whether you're in Germany, France, Argentina or Korea and Japan. A German would get shit from the more outspoken Argentines if he was part of the minority there, but that's just very unfortunate nowadays.