Alvarez vs. Busio is no contest, IMO. Alvarez vs. Reyna might be closer, but I think Reyna’s ceiling is way overrated. It’s true that he has a better development environment than most and is going to get chances because his name. He’s also a very athletic player with above average skill, some playmaking ability and good set piece taking, but the technical and creative skills are not top level, IMO. This is part of why I don’t think he dominates as consistently as you’d like to see in his own age group. There are things you can criticize Alvarez for, but skill, creativity, technique, playmaking, goal scoring are all areas he’s elite at. His ceiling is extremely high based only on his skill set. Could Reyna have a better career? Absolutely. He has the Tim Weah head start that very few players get and he’s likely going to be a good player, but if I’m picking a team and can only have one of them in it, I’m taking Alvarez.
What? Technically he is so smooth on his touches. He is the rare guy in US player pool who can use first touch to blow past defenders, not just keep close control of the ball. It's another level. Look at his performance with Dortmund, especially the latest one against other adults.
FMF sporting director Gerardo Torrado, just reached out to Julian Araujo and Richie Ledezma. Will probably meet soon with Mendez and Llanez too. And counting the others Mexico has poached for their Youth teams, I say USSF/MLS have done an outstanding job at producing talent. I always hear that MLS does a poor job at producing talent yet when Mexico, who has been around longer with 'canteras' would rather come to the US and poach a system that has been around for around 10 years, I say we are headed in the right direction. Way exceeding expectations!
And to be honest outside careers going differently AND Araujo, I don't see them being able to poach anyone that had a substantial role in the U-20 World Cup. People have an innate ability to be loyal. The programs do not have a huge gap in quality moving forward and if you go U-23, I think we are in a much better position than Mexico moving forward. That isn't to say that Mexico is slipping or losing quality. It's more that I don't see a prospect looking at Mexico and seeing a greater opportunity to succeed on the international stage. But hey, maybe they want to be the one to finally get Mexico past the round of 16 at the World Cup. The kids that grew up in the United States, left to go to Europe, and played in all of the US's youth teams I feel have a 0 percent chance of switching. They could have chosen to go to Mexico to continue their soccer career. They didn't. Mexico will see much more success poaching kids that stay in the MLS (ala Araujo and Efrain) or go to Mexico (ala Jonathon Gonzalez). But with that all being said, I don't begrudge anyone from playing for the country that they would like to play for. Everyone should make the decision they would like too. That's not an excuse for not recruiting dual nationals and making them feel like they are being considered for our teams. And that's not me saying we should cap a dual national over a more deserving player that can only play for us. Focus on the moon and the rest falls into place.
The vast majority of these players have been clear. They feel allegiance to both the US and to Mexico and whether it's negotiating posture or completely honest, they will evaluate their choice based on opportunity. So why wouldn't you want to keep in touch with them, so that you can: Let them know that they are in your plans Be explicit in the path to a senior team call up I don't really understand why you'd want a player to be being offered things and courted by the FMF (or KNVB or whomever) and have radio silence. Regardless of how many times you've been called up, it doesn't make a person feel like there's opportunity there. And that puts you at a huge disadvantage. This isn't about kids needing to be pumped up or some ridiculous thing like that. I look at my own career: If I'm happy where I am and I know that I'm valued and there's a plan, I don't even take the call when a recruiter comes. But if there's no plan for me and no one is talking to me about my next job, I take the call. And by the time you have the chance to counter offer, I don't know if I trust you -- did you value me and my work or is this merely a desperation move to keep me and it'll go back to the way it was as soon as I stay. Recruiting works, and it's not some degrading act. You don't have to grovel, or lie, or give false information. You just have to make an effort and be clear. Hell, even if you don't need to recruit a kid, why don't you want to stay in touch with them and help them develop? I don't even think this is laziness. I think it's a combination of old school arrogance (They should beg for a US Call Up - it's an honor) and a ridiculous amount of deference to the club. I remember when Efra declared for Mexico, the LAG asked that US Soccer not unsettled him because it'd affect his play. But the FMF can come in for Araujo? Why does US Soccer listen?
This article is from 9/11/19, so it maybe posted in another thread but, it is definitely worth talking about here. A lot of interesting information. Can someone with more knowledge on Efrain explain what he means by not being treated well by the USYNTs? See the quote below. I mean he has been continually called up for the US and even given the #10 with the captains armband before eventually switching to Mexico. Where did the US go wrong here? https://www.espn.com/soccer/la-gala...zlatans-cub-and-faces-a-us-or-mexico-decision From the article: [Alvarez's youth national team career with the U.S. began at age 12, and he captained the U15s side in 2016. But he was left unhappy at how he and teammates were treated, something that caught the attention of Mexico's coaching staff. "After U.S. camp, I didn't like it at all how they treated me, not only me but some other players," Alvarez said. "I don't [know] how Mexico found out, but they found out, and they came to talk to me, actually to my house."]
I think it was reported here a few times they may have disciplined him for missing curfew or something else along those lines when at a youth camp. Not sure of details but I assume that is what he is talking about.
Three mandatory steps for recruiting/retaining duel nationality players - 1. Learn to speak Spanish - even if you suck at it, people really appreciate it when you try. 2. Go to their physical neighborhood - it tells people that you are important to them, and you learn a lot about what is most important to them. 3. Listen for the purpose of understanding, not to be understood - Want to undo good will quickly with a recruit or his family? Act like you are ignoring or even judging someone when they tell you what they think. Who knows what happened with Alvarez? All I know is what I learned from my personal experiences working with lower income families in Spanish speaking neighborhoods. I was given a team with 7 players for an 18 man roster. You learn the reality of how things work very, very quickly in that type of situation. At first, I had to take anybody who had a pulse and who’s parents could pay the club fees. Then, after a while, through connections of people in the community, I was able to find that there was a lot more talent available than appeared on the surface. This is the way it is in blue collar communities where Dads pass on their love of the game to their sons. When you are given access to this sacred part of a community or a family, you need to appreciate the privilege or it will be gone before you know what happened. US Soccer may not have done anything specifically wrong, they just may have lost the family/player’s trust without realizing it. The fact that people are debating about who’s fault it all is shows that we still don’t understand - if we want to benefit from those powerful father-son relationships of duel national families, we need to work harder at understanding the nature of what we are dealing with. Otherwise we end up following a failure of some kind trying to figure out who’s fault it all was. By the way , that team I mentioned above ended up supplying the club with a large amount of its best players in the age group and a ton of it had nothing to do with any kind of soccer knowledge on my part. Sometimes you just need to listen to people and pay attention to what they are telling you whether it is helping your short term goals or not. Only then is your technical knowledge useful. I wasn’t anywhere near the family or US Soccer when all of this Alvarez stuff happened, but I sure as heck recognize the language being used after the fact on both sides - as well as the language of fans looking for someone to blame. Nobody did anything wrong, per say, there are just opportunities to get better - if we are looking for them.
I mean the article qoutes Efrain saying: "After U.S. camp, I didn't like it at all how they treated me, not only me but some other players," Alvarez said Sounds like US Soccer did something wrong... I don't know how else to interpret that.
It is possible to not treat people wrong, but they feel that they are treated wrong. My 3 year feels that way frequently.
Yeah he was what 15 at the time. You reprimand 15 year olds who break curfew in a foreign hotel room, especially when they're not your kid and you're responsible for their safety. He feels he got singled out or mistreated but it's hard to argue that USS shouldn't have said or done something in response.
Alvarez is functioning with the LA Galaxy. He is functioning with the Mexican federation. The US Federation functions with other Mexican American prospects. When they want to, they do a good job of recruiting dual nationals. What was different in this case? My guess - how the suspension was done was interpreted differently by the player than the suspension itself. There aren’t many players that would object that strongly to a suspension, but how he was talked to during the camp might have been seen very differently by player and coaches. That is why I talk about building trust and respect. You never know how somebody is interpreting what you are saying and, in the world of competitive sports, you are going to have no choice but to speak frankly at times. You had better have built plenty of trust and respect when those moments come. Clearly it was not there based on what Alvarez said. “I didn’t like it at all how they treated me, not only me but some other players”. This is not a guy who trusts the US coaches. We will probably never know exactly why, but it is clear that trust is not there.
Depends also on how his club coach reacts. Was that something like "You are the best in the country, they can't treat you this way"?
Efrain Alvarez scores must-see goal for Mexico U17s 92nd minute, against Italy, not bad... https://streamja.com/5Qy2
It’s been so long since the US got humiliated at this tournament that I didn’t realize it was still happening... Anyway here’s Alvarez’ latest goal: #U17TD ¡LO EMPATÓ MEXICO! 🚨 Repetimos ¡LO EMPATÓ MEXICO ! 🚨 @efrain_alvarez1 aparece y salva a @miseleccionmx: con un zurdazo empata el encuentro ¡Joyita de anotación 👌🏻! Para verla una y otra vez pic.twitter.com/bjZTrtHppY— Telemundo Deportes (@TelemundoSports) November 14, 2019
these two things are extremely important. In my experience, it isn't even that important that you speak Spanish. (It helps but not critical). Mexicans and most Latinos that I have met tend to be very self conscious about their English. I have found that even when their English is far better than my Spanish, they are very hesitant to speak English. I believe it is for that reason they really appreciate it when someone ATTEMPTS to speak Spanish. I don't know how many times I have been complimented on how good my Spanish is when I know damn well that it is horrible. The attempt makes a HUGE difference because they know how hard it is. Also, being willing to go to their neighborhood does more than tell them they are important to them, it tells them you consider them equal. Going to their house, eating their food if they offer it to you. If you are lucky enough to be invited to their house for a party or celebration is an indication that you are now important to them.
This is a very insightful post. Clearly you have lived these experiences as well. It is too bad that so many in our culture just aren’t able to understand the depth of importance to this. Even my own youth club, who was benefiting directly from what I was doing, just assumed, “Oh, we have more good players now.” They could have cared less about how it happened. Now I don’t work there anymore and the pipeline is gone. They probably think they are just unlucky not to have good players still coming into the club like I had. I recently looked at the results for the team I had been coaching the season before. They realized that the team dropped in quality when I left so they moved them down two divisions in their league play. Two divisions lower, they lost their first two games, each by a score of 8-0. After that they forfeited the rest of their games for the season. That was the shape that the team was in when they gave it to me, but they stopped going into the neighborhoods and interacting with people. The coaches they had were competent - soccer wise. The difference was engaging the community. It is obvious that we struggle with this at the national level as well. Efrain Alvarez just put Mexico’s U17 team through to the final against the team that we crashed out against. When we have people who understand what is going on, we get rid of them. Even now, there are people in this forum that think that they are “supporting” US Soccer by enabling this apathy. A few of us have taken the time to see up close how much of a difference maker community engagement is amongst the communities in our country that truly love the game.
The Penalty kick was pretty humorous the keeper just stood there and caught it. When that goes bad, it really looks bad. Good thing his teammates bailed him out in the rest of the PKS.
@Peter Bonetti, Curious, what kind of financial demand/arrangement did the players that you recruited have?
If their family qualified for Federal free or reduced lunch at school, they were allowed to apply for a 75% reduction in club fees.
US Soccer screwed up. But now that the decision is a done deal, why follow him? He remains a US citizen, but will never be a US soccer player. This is true for me about any player that chooses to play for another country. As a soccer player, you are dead to me.
Read the posts up above. To me the lack of engagement in Spanish is a sign of our hubris as an organization. Our arrogance is the achilles heal of US Soccer. We haven't earned it.