Exactly. Jurgen's 2013 run was shooting par. He didn't get fired for that. He got fired for his 2015 and 2016, the start of the hex.
See, it is this kind of redic argument that forces any fair minded person to defend Klinsi. The last hex was NOT shooting par. It was a real accomplishment. Just Like Bruce's run in the 2002 WC was a real accomplishment. Klins is gone and Bruce is here. Why are we still arguing about Klins? We need to support our coach. Too bad so many didn't do that with the last one. Once the decision to eat all that money and fire JK was made, the only intelligent choice was to hire Bruce, the best coach the US has produced, to get us to Russia. THAT is why he was hired. So far he is doing what he was hired to do, so worrying about the style we are playing isn't really what matters NOW. Getting to Russia is what matters. And Bruce is doing that job. Now, after Russia, then the discussion going on in here becomes more important. We DO have a set of more skillful players coming through the youth ranks than we have had in a while, so I agree with those that think we need to do more than bunker/counter (not saying I agree that that is all Bruce is doing, BTW) and do need to become more proactive and take the game to other teams like we do in our other sports. But that is a conversation for 2018. Right now, Bruce has done a good job of righting the ship and instilling some tactical flexibility into the squad. I particularly appreciate the fact that we have a coach who finally listened to my pleas on here for the last couple of years to go to a 3-4-3/3-5-2 since it fits our personnel better than a 4-4-2 diamond does, and esp against Mexico it was always going to be a more effective formation than the diamond midfield. Esp. since we do to have a competent 6 to play at the base. Hopefully we play this way going forward and alternate a 4-2-3-1 when we need to be more attacking. Bruce has shown tactical flexibility in his previous tenures and he is pretty good at fitting the system to our personnel. Oh....and fitting personnel to the way he wants to play - Bruce is a master of playing players "out of position" by evaluating a players attributes and moving him to a role that Bruce thinks will help the team while also allowing the player to succeed. These don't always work, but he has a decent track record in this regard, which makes that whole tired argument about playing someone "our o f position" even more redic. I am confident Bruce will succeed at his assigned task. Won't be easy (CONCACAF gets better every cycle it seems) but we are on track to get there. And it may not be pretty, but it will be effective from a results POV. Bruce may well send Lalas into bouts of ecstasy as we devolve back into a "set play" machine, LOL, but I have few doubts he will get it done. Then, afterwards, once we see how we do in Russia, we can discuss what we do moving forward.
In 2005, 2009, and 2013, each time, we were the first team to punch our ticket. However you rate 2013, you have to rate 2005 and 2009 the same way.
Purely from results? Maybe - the difference between those years being on the margins. But in terms of preparing the team for the World Cup, which I think has to be considered, 2009 and 2013 were probably better years.
Bruce sets expectations for 2017: ussoccer.com: Looking ahead to the CONCACAF Gold Cup, earlier in 2017 you said that a good year would be to qualify for the World Cup and win the Gold Cup. With your roster nearly set, what is your outlook for this year’s confederation championship? BA: “I think I said it would be a great year to do those two things, and that’s a pretty tall order. I think we will have a good group of players coming in with a nice blend of some experienced players and some less experienced. They’re going to have an opportunity to show what they’re about, and I think that part is exciting. Anytime you’re in the midst of World Cup Qualifying and very close to not only qualifying, but being at a World Cup a year later, you have to have a competitive environment, and these players will push to positions themselves to be a big part of things moving forward.” http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/201...ruce-arena-discusses-successful-june-wcq-camp
I know I was depressed when the player who was the engine of Jurgen Klinsmann's early success was cut by the manager in a fit of familial vanity. Then even more when it took Timmy's Greatest Day to stave off humiliation in the round of 16. And much more depressed when there was no one capable of staving off humiliation against Argentina. But that was nothing compared to the depression of the most depressing Gold Cup, ever. By the time Jurgen had achieved the feat of losing twice at home to Mexico, losing the CC spot, been treated like a foosball by Costa Rica, and seen us stamped as last in WCQ, there was no more depression. The words that then applied were "utter despair". Houston, you've got a real problem if you think the stuff Jurgen set out was the stuff we should have now.
Well, that explains your "analysis". As for "the stuff Jurgen set out", Klinsmann like Arena has had successes and failures during their tenure leading the USMNT. Klinsmann still has the record for highest winning% and consecutive victories in program history (2013). I would like to see both those records broken in 2017, Arena has not yet lost a match this year. With the addition of Pulisic to what many have called the most talented USMNT pool in history, moving those records forward would be a sign of progress and provide momentum going into WC2018.
The A team gold cup 4th place and Confed Cup playoff should have caused a change. Especially when he talked about the importance of the Confederation Cup and lamented that it would have been nice to be in the 2013 Confed Cup. Bruce has some pressure to win the B team GC, though his job is to get to the WC. It does help that he doesn't go into platitudes about the importance of a confed cup, olympics, or youth WC and then ignore it when the teams don't get there.
The only reason the team made a run to 4th place in the Copa was they were getting trashed by fans for sucking previously and took it personally. They admitted this reality. Then we saw how fleeting those causes for decent success were when they went back to sucking afterward, until Klinsmann got fired. And even during the Copa how tenuous their success was when they lost a couple players, then it all fell apart against Argentina to the tune of no shots and 4 goals allowed, reflective of how much Klinsmann killed the depth of the squad with his biased and ignorant selection policies over time. Bruce took the same player pool, made a few tweaks, and immediately was much more successful than Klinsmann in CONCACAF. It was 4 years removed from Klinsmann winning his WC qualifying group. And that was with Mexico being a non-competitor at the time due to Chepo De La Torre derailing them similar to how Klinsmann ultimately derailed the U.S. Now they're a top 10 side according to ELO, and Bruce drew level with them on the road, whereas Jurgen just lost to them at home, the first time that had happened against Mexico in qualifying in a VERY long time. No honest person would argue that then the U.S. weren't in real danger of not qualifying, doing unprecedented things in a negative way in CONCACAF the last two years between qualies and the Gold Cup. A squad who gets out-shot 21:6 by Haiti, 25:5 by Panama, 16:5 by Honduras, and gets beaten by Jamaica all at home, while getting beat by Guatemala by multiple goals on the road; clearly is in real danger not to qualify. Hell, they'd have been in real danger to not qualify for the hex if they didn't get the easiest group ever. In fact odds were against qualification for the WC with that recent record. Klinsmann's rep got saved further damage and allowed his blind apologists to be in denial by him getting fired. Plus he got 6+ million in the deal. Definitely not a bad outcome for him. Just nobody should hire him for any job in the sport from this point forward, if they aren't conned like USS were.
Klinsmann was fine, for one cycle. The only thing protecting him after that last debacle of a Gold Cup was his big fat contract. I was a Klinsmann supporter from the start, but anyone could see he needed to go after the GC. Doesn't diminish his nice run through 'WC 14.
Not everyone. I don't know that. I know I was/am a Klinsmann hater. Initially I was against his hiring but was hopeful and willing to see how it turned out. By the time the hex came around and we were heading into the CR game I was definitely feeling like my initial feelings were justified (the team barely escaped the previous round and hadn't begun the Hex in a manner that encourages confidence). the snow bowl and the way the team came together gave me encouragement but I never really had full confidence in him. I had seen enough and had not seen anything to contradict the negative reports out of Germany. Something positive had definitely happened before the CR game and we finished strong but I wasn't completely sold. We finished in a position we had achieved before but this time our only real competitor was CR. Mexico was in shambles. The Donovan decision was, in my mind, the single greatest error that he made but it really was just the nail in the coffin. the fact that he brought so many players to the world cup without using them was/is a huge red flag. Compare that to Arena's use of the roster in the last two qualifiers. The irony in his statements that the US lacks the mentality yet he is afraid to play against top quality teams unless it is in friendlies. Italy, Germany, Holland are all nice scalps but think of how we played in those games and compare to the way we played against Belgium and Argentina. He was constantly talking about the lack of talent in the US and now many are saying we have the most talented team in history (I may be mistaken but I believe you said it also). We have Pulisic now but if I'm not mistaken Klinsmann had all of the players available to Arena for the beginning of the Hex except for Dempsey. In the world cup, he didn't have Pulisic but he could have had Donovan and several of the players playing now (Nagbe for example) but chose to bring along players to sit on the bench because they were a little ahead. Green, received the most attention but there were several players that went to Brazil that could have been left home for players that might have actually played.
All I remember about 2005-6 or at least the portion between the Hex and the Cup, was players being re-inserted (Pope, Keller) who were past their best days and looking at our lineups and seeing six guys over 30 starting. In fairness, not many youth players were stepping up at the time.
Even before the LD decision I didn't like him - he was too condescending to me and didn't seem to really have a plan. I was skeptical from day 1 because I knew he couldn't do the things he suggeste with the pool we had and wasn't really going to revolutionize US soccer across the board. That said, I gave him a chance and thought he was putting things together at one point (the Scotland friendly) or another (the GC), but in both cases it was LD's doing. The hate definitely came with the LD decision.
lol, I missed this nugget. Cutting Landon Donovan was a symptom of Klinsmann's bad thinking, inability to work with people and his narcissistic thinking. This would be revisionist history at it's absolute worst.
Actually 2006 looks very much like 2014... DNP - Ching and Albright vs Diskerud and Chandler Only an injury sub - Olson vs Johansson Inexplicably played once - O'Brien vs Davis You should really go back and watch that Belgium game. I'd think a better comparison would be that game vs the one just played in Mexico. Against Mexico, we were lined up more defensively, conceded more possession, sent fewer players into the attack and made more defensive subs. If the use of the 2014 roster and tactics used against a better team are your concern, I'd think you'd want to get that huge red flag back out.
Huh, the game vs Belguim we allowed 38 shots, 27 on goal, conceded 19 corners and Tim Howard was a leviathan with 16 saves, a World Cup record. It was like watching Horatio at the bridge. The match against Mexico was entirely different. We allowed 10 shots, 1 on goal, allowed 9 corner kicks and Guzan did not have to make a save, Mexico's lone shot on goal scored.
Off the top of my head I would add Green as a DNP (only got in after down 2-0 to Belgium in injury time) and would also note that Johansson apparently was injured (or inexplicably did not play inspite of injury to Altidore's injury). O'Brien I would not call an inexplicably played once. O'Brien was always a gamble/calcuated risk that Arena lost. The upside I think was far greater than any possib;e upside for Davis. In addition factor in the difference in conditions. When I mentioned Belgium and Argenitna, I was trying to highlight how "proactive" we played when it was meaningless but in meaningful games the approach was completely different. The approach was completely defensive and we were just trying to be competitive and hopefully steal a win. Mexico was a game that seriously highlights the dangers of relying purely upon possession stats to analyze a game. Against Mexico we were much more threatening than against either Belgium or Argentina. Against Mexico we were also much more effective in defending than we were against either Belgium or Argentina. Against Mexico it could easily have been a game that we won. (we easily could have won or lost against Mexico because it was very even in many ways). Against Belgium it easily could have been much worse than it actually turned out because it was much more uneven than the scoreline sugebgested
I liked JK up until the GC debacle in 2015. The confed playoff game sealed it for me. I would have gone ahead and ate the 6 million then. I did not find the Belgium game particularly egregious, nor the LD omission, we had a plan and it almost worked except for Wondo. Belgium was probably better in every spot on the field save GK. That said, why are we still rehashing this? Bruce is our coach now and he has done well. He really was the only choice with the situation he was coming into. He has the lads playing together, and for each other, all while getting the points we had to have. I loved watching TT's Dortmund with 7-8 guys going forward playing pro-active attacking football. It is truly the beautiful game. We don't have anything like they do in talent or time to learn each other. Bruce wants to win and looks like he could give a rip about how it looks. He doesn't appear to a be a fan of putting square pegs into round holes. He strikes me as a very pragmatic guy not married to any particular system. That is important in a NT coach when you have the pieces you have and can't buy a player to fill a hole. I believe he will put the right players in the right spots and give them the best chance to be successful. Count me a fan of Bruce through Russia.
You are a Klinsmann hater and was initially against his hiring, shocking. Klinsmann was missing Dempsey and Cameron for the Hex kickoffs. In addition Jones had just returned from a 4 month injury layoff and was not 100% fit which showed in the CR match. Cameron currently may well be the US' most pivotal player. To understand his importance re-watch the recent Azteca match and pretend he was not there. Nagbe was not a US citizen during WC2014 not sure who were the "several of the players playing now"? Your characterization of the Belgium match is bizarre. Please read 442's analysis for what really happened. Here are a couple of gems which discredits your biased point of view. Michael Bradley's passing left a lot to be desired early on as USA struggled to get into their rhythm. Nonetheless, Klinsmann’s side racked up 59% possession in the first 20 minutes and generally offered more in the final third. The game had an incredibly open feel to it. There were huge gaps in midfield between Axel Witsel and Marouane Fellaini, while USA's midfield was all at sea too, leaving the centre of the park to resemble a chasm Despite the attacking intent from both teams, the final ball was often lacking. USA had more than 50% possession in a World Cup game for the first time since playing Algeria in 2010. https://www.fourfourtwo.com/feature...um-advance-how-stats-zone-saw-belgium-2-1-usa
One of Arena's "no rhyme or reason for selection" DWill be in the EPL this coming season! Huddersfield set to sign Reading star Danny Williams on free: Izzy Brown talks continue #htafc https://t.co/vEy70DbWaw— Daily Star Sport (@DailyStar_Sport) June 20, 2017