From what I've seen Gerard Pique had also a good match with many positive interventions. Deserved more than a 6 by L'Equipe and France Football. MOTM in WhoScored and #2 behind Alba in SofaScore. In the absence of Umtiti (and the likes of Mascherano, Puyol before him) he seems to be a bit more pro-active, sharp and aggressive but maybe I'm wrong here.
The comments near the end (last four minutes or so), luckily I wasn't the only one to think it was an outstanding match while coming up against two/three midfielders.
Gerard Pique's performance was, per traditional measures, nothing short of a defensive masterpiece of sorts, but for some reason the way that football performances are rated has RADICALLY changed over the past 3-4 years where it's all about the results. For what it's worth, I have a collection that consists of something over 200 games just of Maldini, Cannavaro, Nesta, Terry, Carvalho, and Puyol, and Pique this week was as great as any of them ever were, I mean, that is as great as a great defender can be... At any rate, I think that Gerard Pique was rather comprehensively the MOTM, and by a significant margin over Jordi Alba who was sloppy on several occasions with dangerously misplaced passes (under not enough pressure that said mistakes can be justified as 'forced' mistakes). I suspect Pique's performance was underrated or discredited largely on the basis of Manchester United not being perceived as a legitimately difficult team, but put that same Pique performance against a higher profile side, in a higher profile stage of the champions league, and it suddenly becomes a classic. (Of course, Pique's big flaw for the better part of his career has been his on-and-off form.)
Bizarre, a year and a half ago 'nobody' knew who they were in the city they play in. Now they are seen (by foreign media) as maybe the best footballing or entertaining team in Europe.
Thank you. A remarkable game, not sure yet if Spurs deserved it, but Lucas (regardless of his political views) was exceptional. Thought Trent Alexander-Arnold was outstanding (along with a few others) against Barcelona on Tuesday as well.
Ajax had some big bottling jobs in the league as well (Heracles, Feyenoord, Heerenveen) and would have been without a chance against Liverpool. Van Gaal for example said/explained before the semi finals started there is more of a chance against Barcelona while Liverpool with their power is a bridge too far. Sending both your center backs up front while 2-0 up is just dumb. Because of past history (and owners looking like Austin Powers villains) Tottenham is actually not liked in Feyenoord circles, but that is how these things go. Nevertheless a great overperformance by ajax with a record amount of away victories. Also funny trivia: five dutch semi goals, zero for england.
I decided to have a full look at Real Madrid vs Barcelona in La Liga from 1996/97, knowing various players suitable for this thread played in it. Probably it's a good choice for Fernando Hierro. I'd not have been expecting to conclude that necessarily from highlights or having had a flick through the game a bit a while ago, but overall in this game (as opposed perhaps to some others that season vs Barca and Ronaldo in particular judging by some vids on YouTube) he doesn't rely a lot on fouls (and one moment where he gets annoyed at Figo is even justified somewhat by it not being a foul by Hierro as such, or at least not a deliberate one), and he does really well with interceptions, being in the right place, tackles as well as being tidy and clever in possession, using the ball well throughout - it's certainly not a game he came forward much in though so not one to view that side of his game in. For Redondo, less of a stand-out game (when there are the games vs Manchester United, Valencia in the 2000 CL of course), but maybe a good one just to witness him in a generally good display. For several players a bit of a game of two halves. Figo better in the first (not only for the great chance created for Ronaldo) - possibly I'd say the best on the pitch in the first half over Redondo and Hierro although I'd not be scoring them majorly high at that point. Sergi certainly also better first half and probably Ronaldo too, and maybe also Suker for RM (given he went off relatively early in the 2nd). Better in the second half for example would be Seedorf (not only for the assist), Mijatovic (not only for the goal), as well as Guardiola and Luis Enrique for example for Barca. I won't rate the final two subs. The previous changes were Ferrer to right back, replacing Amor, with Luis Enrique going forwards to a wing position (Figo switching sides) in now more of an attacking 4-4-2 (certainly once Pizzi came on) rather than 4-5-1 (or 4-3-3 if you like); then Pizzi for Giovanni who had moved central previously, Amavisca for Suker with Raul changing from roaming left winger to central attacker, and finally De La Pena for Figo quite late on (Barca playing then without a nominal left side midfielder really). RM - Illgner 6.5; Secretario 6, Alkorta 5.5, Hierro 8.5, R.Carlos 6.5; Victor Sanchez 7, Seedorf 7, Redondo 8, Raul 7; Mijatovic 6.5, Suker 7.5 Sub: Amavisca 6 Barca - Vitor Baia 6; Luis Enrique 7, Blanc 7, Nadal 6.5, Sergi 6.5; Figo 7, Amor 5, Guardiola 6.5, Popescu 6.5, Giovanni 5; Ronaldo 7 Subs: Ferrer 6.5, Pizzi 5.5, De La Pena 6
In the past for some games I used increments of 0.25. If I had here too I guess given what I said about Suker he might go down to 7.25, and maybe I'd conclude 7.75 was enough for Redondo too. I'd be a bit in two minds in some cases - Figo still worth 7.25 in the end and Ronaldo (mainly due to lack of involvement which I wouldn't say was mainly due to himself) only 6.75? Victor Sanchez perhaps 7.25 and Raul only 6.75 (probably not the latter but especially in the first half, although showing promise, he did lose possession a number of times)? I'm not sure about Seedorf - perhaps could consider going either way even! And Guardiola too - like I said I did feel both were much improved in the second half, having been quite average (in a different way to Raul, but losing possession quite a bit also) in the first. I think Secretario (although he showed glimpses of good play with a nice pass or good tackle...but overall that wasn't the trend so much) and Alkorta (unlike Hierro, he did rely more on fouls too) might even go down by 0.25 also. From what I could work out from the commentary, Victor Sanchez might have got some praise (hard to be sure) towards the end, and he'd certainly shown some nice moments to create an opening or progress play on a few occasions. Barcelona were being referred to often as 'the Barca of Ronaldo and Luis Figo' so that kind of backs up the idea (my idea?!) that Figo had a big status and great reputation by that point. There was a poll flashed on the screen that asked whether Ronaldo or Raul was better though actually I noticed I think (in general or in the season so far I guess).
Following a similar initiative my next idea is to review the Spain players vs Russia (in the semi-final) in Euro 2008, and also then the Dutch players vs either Italy or France (I was thinking France, but now I wonder whether Italy is a better choice). So I'll just rate the one team again as with the matches I refer to in the above quotes, which allows concentration on that one team. I definitely watched these games at the time, so from memory I'd be suggesting Fabregas will score well (I'm even less sure a decade later if Ill likely score Villa very highly for this particular game). Likewise Sneijder (whichever game I select eventually - I'll get the Spain one watched first anyway). I think maybe I had watched the Ajax-Bayern game (and might have had an inkling that Litmanen and R.De Boer too would stand out), but not Milan-PSG in full I think (but still would have thought to an extent at least it'd be a good one for Savicevic...even without YouTube help perhaps....and maybe Boban too). I guess it's reasonable when watching games to make ratings to mix in some we've never seen at all (in real time - maybe some highlights on YouTube like for some World Cup games for example), with some we remember quite well but want to clarify our thoughts about.
Oh, of course it was Villa that went off fairly early, having sustained the injury that kept him out of the final game, to be replaced by Fabregas! http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/euro_2008/7363541.stm
I have had a look through that Spain vs Russia game now, and I'd go with this for the Spanish players: Casillas 7; Ramos 6.75, Puyol 6.5, Marchena 6.25, Capdevila 6; Iniesta 7.75, Xavi 8, Senna 6.75, Silva 7; Torres 5.75, Villa 6.75 Subs: Fabregas 8.25, Alonso 6.25, Guiza 6.75 I've used the 0.25 increments again, but otherwise would have gone with 8s for Iniesta and Fabregas as well as Xavi, and I thought about it anyway. Iniesta was a little bit sloppy early on, but after he'd found his rhythm and played himself into the game he was as good as anyone I'd say, and end product wise obviously he played a big role in Xavi's goal, but the pass to Fabregas before Silva's goal was really good too. Xavi went from good to very good while he was on the pitch, and while maybe it's not the best choice for literally best game by either of those two, it's definitely a good one to witness their best qualities (before Guardiola even started as Barcelona coach of course!). Given Fabregas wasn't on the pitch for the first half hour maybe I've been generous, but he certainly played a really good game, his influence and quality improving throughout pretty much too and the two assists with the second being particularly impressive make a little bonus seem ok I think! I always wondered whether that game led him to be played as more of an AM at Arsenal, and he certainly took advantage of having that role extremely well anyway. Iniesta spent more time playing from the left (and did his best work from that side as well as coming centrally into the midfield a bit like Fabregas did too when he dropped deep) and Silva more from the right, but I've written the names down according to how they started.
I should have proof read that. I meant his first assist, for Spain's second goal, although the other one slid into Silva was certainly good too.
Is that the assist around this mark? (the next one for Inter vs AC Milan I also like). One of my most favorite is probably this Yeah I think Capello set up his midfield in such way that Redondo was free to do his thing while the others had a more restricted role (nevertheless CS10 had his moments against the strong teams, but generally was more in the spotlights if he himself had more of a free role or hub role - as I said/concluded before I think his brief very prolific spell in Brazil has increased the respect somewhat, with a huge upward effect on Botafogo their fortunes and then relegated in the season after he left). Also interesting to read about the changing performance and role of Figo. That does suggest Capello (as usual) adapted throughout a match which in turn forced Figo to switch sides. Seedorf has also an interesting reference in that recent 'The Mixer' book (something I had forgotten about). On the 1999-00 season: "Like Parma, Inter struggled to create chances when playing 3-5-2, collecting only ten points from the nine matches before the opening of the January transfer window. They then completed a significant signing: Real Madrid's Clarence Seedorf. Although the Dutchman had spent the majority of his career in a deeper position, he was instantly deployed as a number 10, and transformed Inter. On his debut, Inter defeated Perugia 5-0. Seedorf assisted the first, then dribbled inside from the left flank, produced a stepover so mesmeric that it left Perugia defender Roberto Ripa on the ground, and lifted the ball into the corner. Three more Inter goals followed, and Seedorf was substituted to a standing ovation. His arrival, and the shift from 3-5-2 to 3-4-1-2, meant Inter collected 23 points from their next ten games." As for Iniesta, one match I liked was his 2006 CL final game in the Busquets position so to speak. From then on he became a starter for Barcelona (in 2006-07 he had even the highest Don Balon average grade of his team, higher than Ronaldinho, Messi etc.). Going up from 12, 14 league starts to 28 etc.
The move for Real's second goal, with Seedorf's assist is at 1:16 on this brief video: It was a nice move between Mijatovic, Suker and him, and certainly a quality pass for the assist (also a nice one by Suker for the pre-assist). I'd tend to say if anything comparing Iniesta's first half vs Russia to Seedorf's in this game Iniesta was a bit ahead in my estimation by half-time (each had one blooper moment we could say - Iniesta with a fresh air shot and Seedorf with a near own goal...but like with the second half assists I'd not be basing everything on that but general play and percentage of time the ball was lost etc too). For the second half, Iniesta a bit ahead at least too I think, but only because he had a really good second 45 minutes (already showing signs of it before half-time), as Seedorf certainly did very well after the break vs Barca in general. So that's the difference between ending on at least 7.75 and maximum 7.25 I suppose. I was reminded when I clicked on the video you'd posted that it was Seedorf's excellent long pass to Raul, before the great goal in the Intercontinental Cup Final in 98 though! He had that capability, as well as with the long range shot of course (famous example in that 96/97 season). I found the video for Capello's 'Best XI' now, and I'd say the way he envisages Rijkaard and Redondo together, is like how it was between Redondo and Seedorf actually pretty much (I think Rijkaard pretty much in the role he played for Milan under Capello though, as he did contribute quite often breaking forwards didn't he as you've mentioned yourself before): I'm not sure how often Real Madrid played more of a 4-3-1-2 with Raul behind the strikers though that season, but that would put Seedorf as nominally one of two midfielders either side of Redondo I suppose. Anyway Redondo was like an anchor player that would get involved on the ball and pick his moments to venture upfield, and Seedorf more the all action midfielder running a lot and contributing defensively and attacking (box to box midfielder in essence). Yeah, the other sub (Larsson) is more heralded for that game but Iniesta did really well in terms of linking the play, using skills, being incisive, even defending and of course the pass before the first goal was from him into Larsson. I suppose that was more a conventional midfield role than he'd later play under Guardiola where he was more the AM and tending to the left side. And his role for Spain in Euro 2008 was probably as a bit more of a conventional wide midfielder too, rather than left wing/inside left like in the next World Cup, although he did roam a bit as I said and switched sides too. I would say a midfield player in a 4-3-3 mainly sticking to one side was not completely new though - looking at Germany vs Bulgaria from 1995 I found a good example of Letchkov mainly sticking to the right (and Balakov the left consequently): (Line-up at 2:58 followed by relevant highlights from another qualifying game). With the Figo change, I'm not sure in this instance - I think it was to do with getting Luis Enrique into a wing position, and maybe Robson favoured using Figo from the left in that set-up. Looking at Figo videos from that season he did switch quite a bit between right and left. In this game he did better on the right certainly, but it was just a case of making a few off passes or bad shots when he'd moved to the left as much as anything (although having some promising moments taking the ball into the box in the inside left position), while he'd mainly done good things from the right side position including when setting Ronaldo up for the chance I mentioned.
There was a lot to include there - I also meant to say yes I've noticed some good highlights from Seedorf at Inter, and that is an interesting paragraph you found about his impact and role there Puck. For best performance over 90 minutes by him that I'm aware of and remember, I'd agree with Carlito about the home game vs Man Utd in 06/07, but I couldn't be sure if it was really his best ever game of course. I remember thinking he was consistently really good in his actions and influential anyway, perhaps even better than Kaka in that game. Ray Wilkins was very impressed with Seedorf's play I remember too.
Yes true, and this video has some more examples after the 3:45 mark. In general he has a quite strong record in the bigger matches (except for the national team, though), just like Rijkaard, despite playing relatively deep and restricted at times. Rijkaard was his youth idol and example (Rijkaard was incidentally also the idol of Patrick Vieira).
Is Suker for you the best Croatian player still? At his peak I guess? Modric maybe had more prominent years? (despite widely overlooked for a long time, until ~2015). Surely Suker had in euro 1996 and WC 1998 two great tournaments. Among his most famous games are Denmark 1996 and Germany 1998.
At his peak probably yes, although hard to gauge older players like Vukas etc, and to an extent hard to compare to midfielders. I'm not sure I really feel Modric is better than Boban though still, but I'm not saying Boban should have been in contention for a Ballon d'Or in any particular year (and I think he was more interrupted by injuries than Modric wasn't he?).
This tournament in particular put modric 18 to shame Very likely the best player of WC 98 but as usual FIFA insist on awarding the golden ball to a finalist when in some years others were more worthy than those who progressed further Recent and relatively recent examples being Stojkovic at WC 90(Schillaci was a one hit wonder, Maradona carrying a ankle injury and frankly overrated in WC 90 Lothar matthaeus cannot touch this guy technically Hagi and Stoichkov at WC 94 Suker at WC 98 Robben and James Rodriguez at WC 14
Instead of reviewing a Dutch team performance from Euro 2008 in the end, I switched to the game vs South Korea in 1998. These are the grades I've settled on: Van der Sar 6.75, Winter 6, Stam 6.5, F. De Boer 7.25, Numan 6.75; R. De Boer 8, Jonk 6.5, Davids 6.75, Overmars 6.75; Bergkamp 8.25, Cocu 6.75 Subs: Van Hooijdonk 6.5, Bogarde 5.75, Zenden 6.25 So definitely a notable one for Bergkamp, but not moreso than I'd have thought already. And Ronald de Boer certainly played a very good game overall I felt.
The captain of Brazil Dani Alves against Argentina today. Must be among his best national team games I guess (relative to stage and circumstance), chief candidate for man of the match too. "Alves notched up more passes than anyone else on the Brazil team, 30 more than even Arthur in the middle." https://www.goal.com/en/news/age-is...k-the-years-to-take/7fbac6rqbmry1k0z96bc95dr8 http://www.sportbible.com/football/...es-still-producing-1010-performances-20190703 And that for someone who is older than Philip Lahm.... (yes, you need some fortune for that andsoforth, Brazil the #1 country for drugs violations, recovery and rule transgressions in football) With regards to the Four Four Two list, I'd have Dani Alves as the best full-back in club football since 1994 and Thuram as the best at national team level (Lahm also very good of course, but also less convincing displays as his euro 2008 final, 2012 vs Portugal and Italy, the 2014 group stages as midfielder for example). With some room for uncertainty of course.