The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Take those 3 players out antd TFC still spent 4x HOU ...

    When you're laughing off what is being presented by the owner of Accrington Stanley you shouldn't label anyone's contributions stupid ... Nor should you speak to the believability of anyone else.
     
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  2. As a sport to watch. The % of young people playing it beats by a respectable margin the % of young people playing baseball or basketball over here.
     
  3. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ignorance is no excuse ... you've also been told by more than one person so it must be clear

    It's been a popular youth outlet for decades and has been proof of soccers popularity since the 80s .... This argument went out of style faster than slacks with shirts tucked in and no belt
     
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  4. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The problem in the US is that, in the 1970s and 1980s, soccer rapidly developed a reputation as a children's sport and only a children's sport. For many years, it was seen as a safer sport for kids who were too young to play American football or basketball.
     
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  5. The question is, given it is a popular sport to practice, why it doesnot manage to turn that high percentage of practitioners of soccer into fans that watch clubs on tv/streaming services?
     
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  6. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I told you. Because it's only just starting, in the 21st century, to lose the label of being a safer sport for children too young for US sports. Until well after 2000, the average age kids stopped playing soccer in the US was something like 11.

    Also, the parents had no history of watching soccer.

    The result was that, as recently as 2005, we had a few players drafted into MLS who had never even seen a professional match before.
     
  7. Cubanlix63

    Cubanlix63 Member

    Feb 19, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    That has more to do with having a playoff system than anything.
     
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  8. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    By the way, this should tell you something about awareness of professional soccer before recently. I played college soccer from 2000 through 2003. Each year, all the graduating seniors on the team would receive a form letter from MLS, informing them that there were opportunities to play professionally after college and asking them to consider putting their names into the MLS draft. I'm sure every graduating senior on every college team across the country got the same letter.

    Now, can you imagine the NBA sending a letter mostly saying "we exist" to every graduating senior in college basketball?
     
  9. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    Ex-pat in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    There have been 12 Supporters Shield winners.

    Edit: ...and 13 MLS Cup winners.
     
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  10. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    You're going to have to show your math here, because I am only counting maybe two million or so without Giovinco, Bradley, and Altidore (who made up over $18 million of that $26m).
     
  11. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    And it was a "pussy sport for pinkos". Not like good ol' American football or baseball.
    I mean, I don't think that particular perception began to fade until maybe the 2010 World Cup.
    It was beyond "not being popular", it was openly regarded as unamerican.
     
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  12. USRufnex

    USRufnex Member+

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    Delete your account.
     
  13. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    If it was that easy then why didn't Arsenal win it a 'few' times??
     
  15. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Chelsea were already Champions League qualifiers BEFORE Abramovich bought them, people seem to conveniently forget that fact.
     
  16. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
  17. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    See: The regionally based and continuously disjointed and at odds history of soccer in the US.

    Also see: The NASL, the poster for popularity and disease in soccer ... the why the soccer bridge was burned in mainstream USA for 25 years.

    We are just now finally getting to the point where we have more than one generation that is growing up, from birth, with a top tier professional soccer league on a nationally relevant scale here in the US.

    Bleh, I keep forgetting "total compensation" vs "salary" .... Gio's total comp was 1.5m over his salary and Bradley's was a half million.

    5 + 5.6 + 6 (salaries) = 16.6m which is 3x HOU, not 4x

    [​IMG]

    You are credited one billion majillion points for this reference

    Well they won the Fairs Cup and the Cup winner's Cup ... and have made 5 other European finals

    There's a huge difference in Chelsea's yearly performance from before and after he took over. You seem to conveniently ignore that fact.
     
  18. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not so sure it breaks down like that.

    A lot of the pro/rel argument seems to be that clubs face a financial penalty because the players had a really bad season. In any environment where soccer is not extremely popular and deeply-rooted, that puts clubs at financial risk. That means that trainers, front office staff, etc. all face economic uncertainty because of a bad season. And a community faces the real possibility of losing their club. It's the pro/rel guy from Europe who's decrying our sporting system for protecting clubs from the market.

    Also, I'm not so sure the romance of sport and whatever "sporting merit" means to oneself needs to be in opposition to "common business sense." Business sense doesn't HAVE to mean anything other than "find a way to keep this enterprise afloat."

    I think concerns that MLS is a problematic business model that uses pro soccer as a way to get into the real estate business aren't totally misplaced. I just don't think that's an indictment of closed leagues in general.
     
  19. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Indeed. It's LONG been seen as a good "starter sport" and a fun recreational activity.

    As a serious spectator sport? In much of the country, not so much. But that's starting to change.
     
  20. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Beacon NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    On average you'd face 2 modern UCL standard teams.
     
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  21. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Beacon NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Matthew Harding and family turned Chelsea into a rich club. Ken Bates nearly broke them before being bailed out buy RA.
     
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  22. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Beacon NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not if you look at who has had the best record each season.
     
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  23. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Oh, hang on - you're saying those three were multiples of Houston's total payroll? I misinterpreted what you were saying. Yes - what I meant was that once those three were on the IR (e.g. most of last season), there was not a lot a difference between the payrolls of the two teams' gameday 18.
     
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  24. USRufnex

    USRufnex Member+

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    Observing your last five posts, based on your own criteria, you need to ban yourself from this thread.

    Now, if I were moderating, it would only be temporarily for maybe a month or two, so you could ponder whether you think you're capable of contributing to this discussion in a positive way.

    Of course, if I treated you the same way you've treated me on the MLS forum you moderate, you'd be BANNED FOR LIFE. You don't find that just a tiny bit hypocritical?

    Have a nice day.
     
  25. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    Ex-pat in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    This is also why you tended to see more teams win it multiple seasons in a row.
     

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