The agenda of the left

That stuff is garbage. As is the Crimea complaint, since by Russia's own admission the sanctions hurt so much that they wanted a Republican President instead of those tough Dems.

So right now, the one real item is Syria. More?

 

East Ukraine? but I would put the blame there on the Europeans, that shit should be their sphere of Influence.

Then again, I am not sure anyone ever gave the Russians a line, they were told that their soldiers should not be in Ukraine, so they sent Russian mercenaries and unofficial advisers, so technically the Russians did not cross any line.

 

I think we can rule any Russia-related items. However soft Obama might (or might not have been), he was tougher than his Republican successor.

 

And, most directly and most importantly, the "red line in the sand" about Syria's use of chemical weapons.
He said if Assad used chemical weapons, that would be crossing the "red line" and the US would retaliate.
Assad used chemicals weapons.
Obama said the US should retaliate and that he would seek Congressional authority to do so.

Of course, the fallacy there was that Congress refused to authorize the military action against Syria.

Now, this is a failure as the US did "get the chance" to bomb Syria (not sure why that would be a good idea).
Congress was able to thwart Obama AND then blame him for his failure to protect the Syrian people.
The right wing was about to pillorize Obama for his failure to act-he was "weak" and indecisive.

Of course, a few months later, Assad decided to give up some of his chemical weapons, but that is ignored.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/07/obama-syria-foreign-policy-red-line-revisited-214059

 

I had forgotten about that, and that Ted Cruz wrote an editorial condemning the idea. OK, Syria is off the table. Anything else?

 

Something something Victoria Nuland something something Yanukovich deposed something something.

 

More, please.

 

Nah. You guys are big adults, plus you already have me pegged as being intentionally unclear, so why should I disappoint you?

 

You could put in a good-faith effort to contradict the impression of being intentionally unclear, so that those of us who have defended you feel like we aren't being bamboozled.

 

I googled Victoria Nuland and got lost. Not everybody is as smart as you are.

 

Wow! When did the Democrats suddenly all become John Birchers?

 

I never claimed I was all that smart.

I've tried that for years. Give me one good reason I should bother here anymore?

 

Because it's the right thing to do.

 

There's a point where bashing one's head against the wall is very much the WRONG thing to do.

 

So anyway, I refreshed myself on Ukraine 2013. Well maybe refresh is the wrong word, I likely never knew it.

The U.S. intervened to destabilize a democratically elected government, because that government was drawing too close to Russia, and away from the West. Sounds like an Obama fail, but it doesn't seem to fit into the "red line" camp.

 

How much funding did we give the protesters?

This is the problem with us being hypocrites about say Russian money to the IRA, we are always giving money to movements that oppose governments we do not like.

Even if we think is good like in the Ukraine, it is still getting involved in other countries politics.

Then we act all offended when the Russians do it to us.

 

True enough. Although that doesn't mean that Trump and the GOP should benefit from foreign influence, any more than the Democrats should. No Americans can be celebrating Russian involvement.

And yeah, we probably shouldn't be doing the "city on the hill" spiel.

 

Is someone doing that?

Started? Yep. While he was PM. And actually, Obama himself reportedly opposed Nuland's approach, which dates back to her service with Cheney. But then again, he (Obama) did little to squash her habit of steamrolling European diplomats with the aim of re-raising the Cold War suspicions. The process finished well after Bush was gone.

If it wasn't clear, that's not what I'm doing. But the fact that it continued regardless of stated (though not terribly public) objections is a bigger point.

That it virtually bankrolled Ukranian Nazi parties and resulted in more deaths and, eventually, the ignition of a new Cold War is...well, also the point. The establishment loved her.

 

A story on the per employee head tax battle in Seattle.

The future battle for the Democratic party.

Business friendly Democrats vs Socialist "democrats".

https://www.theringer.com/tech/2018...amazon-kshama-sawant-socialist-local-politics

 

Frankly, you have a better chance of successfully getting Gandalf to ride a unicorn into your office this afternoon.

 

I'm goofing off between sessions at a conference, so just briefly: that should be an easy thing to do since it shouldn't be too hard for the left to make common ground on this issue with conservative and libertarian-leaning Republicans.

But besides being a Republic, we're also an Empire. That means there's a certain kind of power at stake that's going not bring out the best impulses very often in the sort of people seeking that power.

 

Ding ding!