The 2019 U-20 Qualifying Thread

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by TheFalseNine, Oct 15, 2017.

  1. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I thought Goslin was great in the U17 tournaments and the team really missed him when he was suspended.

    I think if we can consistently get to the QFs while losing 3-4 of our best players because they are important players for their teams is a good thing. But winning will be hard. But England, Germany, France, Brazil, Argentina, Spain, probably Netherlands, Portugal etc. also have the same problem. Some of those Federations don't really rate the U20 WC either, so we have that going for us. I don't know if Mexico has/had that problem.

    I do think it is the players Tab picks and plays that is a greater hindrance than the players we are missing because they are too good. For example, taking and starting Hererra at RB put us in an immediate hole, 7' in, that we had to dig out of for the rest of the tournament. Olosunde got a senior cap within a year, for example, where was he?

    Tab also seems to call in NCAA players. Whatever you think of the quality (and it has dropped on average), the timing of both Qualifying and the WC is terrible for NCAA players. But maybe USSF wants to include some for political reasons?

    But, on to 2019.
     
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  2. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I should also point out that I didn’t think Ferri had any business being on that u17 team and Acosta could make a fantastic play from time to time, but was generally not good enough for that level, too. Goslin was better at the World Cup than in qualifying, but I thought the 8 (and 10 when Carleton wasn’t playing it) was a weak link on that roster, especially in qualifying.

    Getting to the QFs would be a very good result for us. I’m not really optimistic that we can get there this year, though. I guess it depends who plays and whether or not Tab Tabs it. Having no 9 hurts. Having no clear idea who is going to fill in the other positions is pretty concerning, too. There’s a good chance that every player in our starting XI for the first game has little to no chemistry with 4 or 5 of the other starters.

    I took some heat a few years ago because I said that I think we can get to the point where our B team can make the semis of this tournament every year. I believe the exact words were “I remember my first cycle...” I still believe we could get to that point in the future. I’m not sure we will until we make some changes to our youth structure in the lower levels and the DAs advance a bit, but at least we are going to be fielding some very good players. Probably not quite our B squad, but not really our A squad, either.

    I agree about Herrera. He shouldn’t even have been on that roster to begin with. I bet that’s why @ussoccer97531 picked Araujo. Tbh, I’ve only seen Araujo a few times, but there’s a good chance he’s better than at least a couple of the players who are selected over him (Uribe).

    The love Tab has for NCAA players has to stop. It’s like Joey said, the quality has taken a huge hit in NCAA since the DA started. I understand it with our forwards this cycle because we are in a tough spot, but there are just too many talented players in the DAs and overseas to even bother. Hell, I’d rather play a Konrad up than force a college player in there just because he is older.
     
  3. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Uribe: Seen him play twice. Not impressed. Is he going to be getting regular first team football this season? Maybe he’s versatile. Other players also are.

    Araujo: I have no clue whether he’ll get called in, but he should. I’ve made the point that I think Ramos has mostly called in the wrong 01’s this cycle. Ochoa and to a lesser extent Llanez are not good enough IMO to play up a cycle, considering the other options. Why no Araujo, why no de la Fuente? It’s good that Booth finally got called up.

    Booth: I don’t think usaprospects actually had much of a different opinion from me. He said he doesn’t think he will be on the qualifying team. I don’t think he will either, although I think he should be. I think Booth is just one of those players where some who aren’t seeing his talent should watch a little closer. A number have questioned his game. I thought he was actually good in the game I saw at the tournament Zlebmada thought he wasn’t good at, but regardless he’s been playing with mostly older players now for years at YNT and club level. He’s a standout against his own age-group. Hard player to evaluate because you gotta do it on a scale due to his age compared to the players he plays with and against.

    Others: I do rate Sands. Don’t know where you are getting that from. I mentioned that I think it’ll be hard to get him released. He’s been right around the NYCFC squad of late. But I don’t consider him a CB, like they do. He’s much better as Durkin’s backup at the #6. I don’t like some of the options they’ve mentioned (Rennicks, Dorsey, Brewer). They all look like non-prospects to me. Not many options at CF. Mines is usually a winger, but could play centrally, if released. He’s earned a call up at this point. Stojanovic is one of the most underrated players in the ‘01 year. He had a terrific season. True CF. I’m not sure if he’s necessarily good enough (like Llanez), but if our top 3 CF’s are unavailable, who is? Perez is not a CF, but he’s 6’0, played as a winger for NC State and scored some goals this season. Need options there, and I’m not convinced the position switch to RB is a good idea. I don’t think he has a RB skill set. Vines and Stanley are two others I’d probably consider non-prospects.
     
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  4. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That’s basically what makes Tab Tab. Why call in Jonathon Gonzalez when you can call in Eryk Williamson? Why call in Josh Perez when you can call in Bofo? Why bench Luca de la Torre after his 60% passing performance when you can keep forcing him into he lineup and not score goals? Ugh. I’m already getting frustrated and the qualifying tournament doesn’t start for 3 months.

    What exactly is Sands’ position? One week I saw him come on for NYCFC as a DM, the next he’s playing CB for the u19s. I get that some players can play both, but he really looks like a player who just needs to pick a position. I know this is sacreligious to say, but I still think a player like Sands could eventually pass Durkin as a DM just because Durkin’s tackling, positioning, and awareness need to improve before we can trust him as a 6 against the best teams. There’s no guarantee they ever do improve and I think there are probably too many better CB options than Sands for him to ever make much of a mark there.

    I watched some of Perez at NC State last year and was generally unimpressed with the competition. So I watched him with the u20s (u19s?) as a right back and he was exposed defensively. For some reason, people were still talking about how good he is after that. I’ve only seen him play a couple times so I’m not going to make any absolute conclusions yet, but my gut says he’s better off as a winger.
     
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  5. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's on loan with Dorados de Sinaloa in Ascenso MX this season.
     
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  6. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    #356 ussoccer97531, Jul 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
    It depends what type of team you are playing in. At Bayern Munich, you'll have more possession than the other team, and you can play him in a deeper role. In a team with less possession, he's probably best in a #8 role. I think he can play both roles well though.

    Sands is definitely a #6, IMO. He just doesn't have the physicality to play CB, and like Durkin, he has ball watching problems at CB. I don't think he has higher potential than Durkin. I think they are somewhat similar, but Durkin is a more physical player. Sands physicality, aerial ability, physical presence, for a #6 is right around average, Durkin's is well above-average.

    I'm not sure what Perez is that good at either, but a lot of people like his game. At RB, I'm not sure he should make the team. At CF, we have a lack of options, so why not?
     
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  7. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Cannon was the big omission at RB, IMO. Olosunde could've been there also.
     
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  8. TarHeels17

    TarHeels17 Member+

    Jan 10, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm a big fan of Tab's player selection. Almost every time he makes a decision that the masses disagree with, he's either:
    A) Correct
    B) Unable to call a player since they can't get called up
    C) He leans towards players he's familiar with (a lot of times that's an older guy over a younger one)

    I remember two of the big things people disagreed with before the U20 WC were Herrera starting at right back and not calling Cannon, and Acosta starting at left back and leaving Marco Farfan at home. He was right about Acosta. He also stayed with Herrera because he was familiar, and Herrera wouldn't have even played if Fossey didn't get hurt.

    I think Tab has done a really, really good job at scouting. Calling up Ledezma, Richards, and Amaya at the YNT summit has looked like a group of great calls. He called up Jonathan Gonzalez when the only other 99 he was calling up was Tyler Adams.

    Other college guys he calls up tend to be either good calls or not there long enough to make a difference. I'm thinking Ebobisse, Williamson, and some of the keepers he's called up. You might be onto something where he has some weird attachment to Indiana players (remember the legend of Jeremiah Gutjahr?), but generally I like Tab. A lot. So much that I hope he gets a job better than the U20 after this cycle.

    Last point I wanna make is he has practically no options at the 9. He likes Shaft on the wing. He likes Manny Perez at right back. Sargent, Weah, Soto all likely unavailable. Ferreira is ineligible right now. He doesn't seem to rate Ayo, and that might be because he sees him as a winger, like Hack. Konrad should only be playing up 2 years if he's on the wing. Who's left? Stojanovic and Gabe Segal? Given who Tab sees at the 9, he's really low on options. Not surprising he's looking at college soccer and taking a 99. Can't say I blame him.
     
  9. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    What about a false nine and who would be the best candidate for that?
     
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  10. TarHeels17

    TarHeels17 Member+

    Jan 10, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Carleton comes to mind. Playing in the middle and yet playing far enough back he doesn't have to come back on defense is a win-win.

    Doubt Tab moves from a 4-3-3, though. From what I can tell, his formation changes are limited to playing with a 10 and without a 10.
     
  11. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t really want to debate specifics but I’ll just say I disagree with your assessment of Tab. I’ll also say I disagree with how Herrera was used. He started only until Glad was healthy and I’d argue he was pretty poor in every game he played. I offer this one post as an example:

     
  12. TarHeels17

    TarHeels17 Member+

    Jan 10, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't disagree that Herrera was a bad decision, but it's nitpicking the smallest detail. Herrera was the guy Tab intended to bring as the backup right back. Tab should've brought Cannon, but oh well.

    Tab's made a lot of really good decisions that people didn't like. This one bad decision, about a player who wouldn't have played at the world cup if another didn't get hurt, is way worse in hindsight than it was at the time he made it, solely because Herrera played.
     
  13. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Most of my time watching Philadelphia this year has been me barely paying attention while i argued on BS. This is definitely the first time I took this close of a look at McKenzie. Orlando wasn’t especially good in this game, but sometimes those are the hardest games to stay focused for a centerback. He was almost perfect with what little he was asked to do. He also probably benefitted a couple times from a ref that let them play. Still, though, I believe he is worth the hype.

     
  14. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I do think Tab takes development first and winning second. He doesn't come out of the 4-3-3 system he uses even against superior opposition or when he has suspension/injury problems. Some might say he doesn't know better, but that is hard to believe. I think he wants to put the kids under pressure trying to play. Contrast that with Sarachan, who played versus France a system that 9 out of 10 times would not get us a goal and 19 out of 20 would not get us a result. We learned those players can bunker and defend until subs come in, but we didn't really learn if they can play against France.

    But the knock here is that it is also hard to see how the players do when one player on the team is so sub-par that he throws everything out of whack. But the team fought back and nobody was in the public throwing Hererra under the bus (except media and fans). You have to have a Plan A and a Plan B at every position and maybe in Tab's position, C & D. I think Tab will really be down to Plan E for some of the positions in U-20 Qualification.

    I don't think Costa Rica, Panama, Honduras, etc. are losing players to pro clubs. But I don't follow them at all, does anyone know? Canada might lose a couple to MLS and I don't know what is going on in Mexico either.
     
  15. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    I will be really curious if the college kids who are in the NCAA Tournament get released for qualifying. I can't imagine Rennicks, Muse and Dorsey all abandoning Indiana in the post-season.

    If Soto doesn't go to Europe, will he leave Cal? What about Amaya at UCLA and Perez at NC State if they make the NCAAs?

    Just can't see the kids leaving their colleges for win-or-go-home games to go play in qualifying. If they cared that little about their college team, why play college soccer this year? (And please don't answer with "academics.")

    I also don't see any kid in Europe that's with the first team getting released, nor should he. Same with guys making the 18 regularly in MLS that are still in the playoffs.

    So basically, we're looking at Euro kids who aren't with the first team, MLS players who either aren't on the first team or whose teams have been eliminated, USL players and HS kids.

    Curious what kind of a roster that leaves.
     
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  16. TheFalseNine

    TheFalseNine Moderator
    Staff Member

    Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 15, 2014
    Norman, Okla.
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the USL playoffs are also around qualifying too.
     
  17. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Maybe so, but which of them are actually owned by the USL team instead of the MLS team with a USL affiliate ? I suspect that the MLS team will make the decision, and not disallow them to potentially help their value just so they can play some lower division matches.
     
  18. SoccerJunkie100

    SoccerJunkie100 New Member

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Apr 25, 2018
    The college guys would only miss conference tournament games and 1st round NCAA games. With it being held in Florida, would make it very easy for them to fly back and forth to play in those games.
     
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  19. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Carleton needs to stay with Atlanta.
     
  20. Thundering165

    Thundering165 Member+

    North Carolina FC
    United States
    May 1, 2017
    Raleigh
    N.C. State barely made the ACC tournament last year so their year will probably be done before Perez is needed. They’re just not a great team.
     
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  21. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    They played in the NCAA Tournament last year.
     
  22. ChuckMe92

    ChuckMe92 Member+

    Jun 23, 2016
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. Napoleon_BA

    Napoleon_BA Member

    May 22, 2009
    Club:
    CA Lanús
    Does anyone have a clue as to why there has been absolutely ZERO press coverage of the U-20 camp that has just been completed?

    There were lists of camp invitees, but nothing since.
     
  24. TheFalseNine

    TheFalseNine Moderator
    Staff Member

    Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 15, 2014
    Norman, Okla.
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because no media outlet sent a reporter there. I know @bshredder has written a couple of interview pieces about the guys who were there (Chris Gloster is one; I can’t remember the other), but I agree with you: the lack of coverage is a sad state of affairs for soccer journalism. I haven’t looked but maybe the local North Carolina outlets sent someone to cover it?
     
  25. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For one, the games and training were closed door. The lack of an MLS team in NC means that there are fewer soccer journalists in the area. Even the DC crowd was stuck at home with the opening of Audi field & Rooney’s arrival.

    I mean, I didn’t go because recently I had a 1v1 with Tab, Soto, Ledezma, Maloney, and then at camp I spoke to Gloster.
     

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