TFC vs LAFC

Discussion in 'Toronto FC' started by Polygong, Sep 1, 2018.

  1. Polygong

    Polygong Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    After this loss and Montreal's win, we're down to pretty much zero room for error. We can afford to drop maybe 4 points in our remaining matches.
     
  2. adrenaline11

    adrenaline11 Member+

    Jul 29, 2010
    Toronto
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    It's time to start thinking about next season. In that regard, there's two camps of thought about TFC should move foward:

    a) Write off the season. Stuff happens. Forget about it this season and move on.
    b) Make some fundamental changes to the squad. Don't burn the house down, but replace some key players.

    Personally, I find myself leaning towards Camp B. I think the club needs to get younger and faster and in order to do that, they have to consider moving Giovinco, Vazquez and Moor.

    When it comes to internationals, Bez tends to favour guys who are in their prime. If we're going to improve, it might be time to start signing younger players who want to use MLS as a stepping stone to Europe.
     
  3. Polygong

    Polygong Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    The first question in my mind is what to do about Vanney. He's made some pretty questionable results this year that really boggle the mind. Even when you consider the injury situation. Surprising after he had a banner year the year before.

    So do we give him another year or do we give him the sack now? To me that answer depends on two things. First whether or not he's lost the dressing room. In that case there's little choice but to let him go now.

    Second, we're hovering only slightly above the theoretical relegation zone. I think that if we finish the season there, he'll have to go. The next 7 games should be about him demonstrating that he's got what it takes to turn it around next year.
     
  4. torontofcmark

    torontofcmark Member

    Oct 24, 2006
    Toronto
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    RIP 2018 Toronto FC. Its like a chain of kryptonite hung around your necks all year long.
     
  5. adrenaline11

    adrenaline11 Member+

    Jul 29, 2010
    Toronto
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    The comparison that comes to mind is Oscar Pareja. Dallas won the Supperters' Shield in '16 and self destructed in '17. They didn't fire Pareja, they didn't blow the team up and they make any big moves other than trading Zimmerman. They're now first in the West.

    Likewise, I don't think Vanney's job should be in danger unless we get knocked out early in the CCL and we start the league season poorly.
     
    crazypete13 repped this.
  6. Deleted User x

    Deleted User x Member+

    Mar 21, 2006
    In your dreams. Unless they get significant transfer money, why would they get rid of their franchise player? (and best player this year). At 31 in MLS he still has plenty left and could very well earn another MLS Best XI this season.
     
  7. adrenaline11

    adrenaline11 Member+

    Jul 29, 2010
    Toronto
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I said they should consider it. He's got one year remaining on his contract. I would argue he's no longer the franchise anymore and hasn't had a better year than Osorio.

    The lack of a contract extension for him should tell you something. If he was performing MLS Best XI level, wouldn't they have re-signed him to another DP deal already?
     
  8. Deleted User x

    Deleted User x Member+

    Mar 21, 2006
    That's ridiculous. You can not be taken seriously anymore.

    None of their DP's have signed extensions yet. And who know's what MLSE is willing to pay him. If he's looking to renew at 7 million, that is likely an issue. Same with Bradley's contract.
     
  9. whitbytfcfan

    whitbytfcfan Member

    Apr 9, 2016
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    I would only agree with letting Giovinco go if there was a player of equal calibre they were considering signing. Who would such a player be? Osorio had a great year but let's keep our feet on the ground here - Osorio doesn't make the players around him better. Giovinco is why Altidore is successful and we can also say Altidore makes Giovinco successful as well. They work well together and neither is as effective without the other. Osorio capitalized on his chances and plays well in Vanney's system but he isn't a franchise player that makes those around him better. A healthy Vazquez does. Bradley ... borderline. But not Osorio. Very good player, certainly glad they kept him but not an elite player.
     
  10. adrenaline11

    adrenaline11 Member+

    Jul 29, 2010
    Toronto
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    You really think anyone has been better than Osorio this season?

    Moving Bradley has to be on the table as well but it's harder to replace someone who's the fulcrum between defence and attack. I have nothing against personal Giovinco, but this is a cap league and right now TFC are against the cap.

    It's not simply the salary that is the matter but also the budget charge. The cost for a DP over 23 is ~$504,000. If you were to sell him and replace him with someone who was 21-23, you give yourself an extra $304,000 to spend. If you cand find someone 20 or younger, you'd save $354,000. That's a lot of money in MLS.

    It's not like talented players in those age brackets can't be found. NYCFC has Maxi Moralez. NYRB has Gamarra. Yes, those are AM but Janson could move into the striker spot. Then you take your money and extra DP slot and spend it on your deficiencies.
     
  11. adrenaline11

    adrenaline11 Member+

    Jul 29, 2010
    Toronto
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I would mostly agree with that which is why I stress the word consider just as they should've considered selling Osorio if they didn't think they could re-sign him.

    Let's not forget that when we signed Giovinco and Bradley, there was skepticism that either of them would even come to MLS. Yet under Bez, we got them both.
     
  12. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    I'm inclined to be forgiving. The team failed on some level but there were also a lot of external factors that came into play and we did have a great and enjoyable CCL run as well as picking up another Voyageurs Cup.

    I don't think Vanney's job should be on the line at this stage. We've gone down the "fire the coach" path too many times and seen what the lack of stability has meant. We'd be better off having him for next year.

    I do expect to see some player changes in the off season. Aketxe is already gone and neither van der Weil nor Auro suddenly made our defence unbeatable. They earn a lot for what they bring.

    As others have indicated, the big question is the DPs. Does the team feel they have enough in the tank to serve as the core of a contender again or do we replace one or more of them. It's tough because chemistry plays as important a role as talent and they certainly have chemistry.
     
  13. whitbytfcfan

    whitbytfcfan Member

    Apr 9, 2016
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    I really liked what a healthy Auro brought to the team but that hasn't happened very often.
     
  14. Deleted User x

    Deleted User x Member+

    Mar 21, 2006
    Who would have thought Van Der Weil would be a downgrade to Beitashour.
     
  15. ArteEtLabore

    ArteEtLabore Member

    Dec 16, 2006
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I'm not buying that a rebuild of the team is necessary. Nor is a coaching change. What the team really needs is to not have Moore, Vasquez, Mavinga and Altidore all out injured for long periods of time.
     
  16. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    Certainly for $800 k he hasn't been a defensive fortress.
     
  17. BearcatSA

    BearcatSA Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Canada
    ^And the $800 K man got sent off today vs the Whitecaps.
     

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