Telê Santana genius or failure ? Brazil 1980 -1986

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by giles varley, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. giles varley

    giles varley Member+

    Oct 8, 2013
    nottingham uk
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #301 giles varley, Mar 15, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
    JUNIOR : the first choice left back
    22/2/1981

    Before scoring the first goal from a free kick for brazil in their 4-1 victory over West Germany at the mundialito, Junior was already considered the best left back in the country. He plays with great freedom and expression. Always full of tricks, joining the attack, running up and down his flank with great energy and often appears in an attacking midfield position.
    At Flamengo, junior says, his style of play is identical to what he shows with the selecão.
    " i do not change my characteristics. With the brazil team i can and i should attack. At flamengo i do the same thing "
    "Everything gets easier the more i play with my international team mates, but my style is the same as it is at my club"

    With Ze Sérgio or Éder in front of him, junior is showing efficiency and setting up attacks from the left side, searching for goals and attacking the opponent at every opportunity.
    Junior can be considered the absolute holder of the left back position. Despite pedrinho's efforts Junior remains Telê santana's favourite.
    Junior is also the favourite for the position with most fans and journalists. But there have been some critics who observe that he can at times be slow to run back to defend and neglect his duties. Some do not accept his style.
    " its true that in training I've took it easy when running back to defend but in actual games it is my mission to get back as quickly as possible, and i believe that i will do it correctly. But there is also a need for an attacking player to be covered. You must rely on coverage. If you attack being worried that you will get caught out by the opponents counter attack then you have more chance of making a mistake going forward."
    " what matters to me is i am playing in an important phase for the selecão. Lets forget some strange results like the uruguay game, its easy to see our football is getting back to how it should be"
    "The type of game Telê wants to play values attacking full backs which gives more alternatives in attack and makes football more joyful."

    Junior has a remarkable personality, he says what he thinks but in a responsible way, he is a leader even he is not the captain of Telê's new brazil. He does not like to lose, even in training, and this makes him respected by all members of the brazil squad.
    Junior understands that a very long concentration (training camp in preparation for games) can be harmful for players. They miss their families, friends and the outside world. But he also understands there is no other way to act. Brazil have to adapt to the altitude for the world cup qualifier against Bolivia in la paz. The technicians and doctors have made it clear that a period of adaption to altitude can be no less than three weeks.

    " i understand that the ideal concentration lasts fifteen days, but when altitude is involved there is no other way. A longer concentration is necessary " Says Junior...

    Many friendlies, hours and hours of training, a long concentration and at great expense to the CBF... surely brazil will be obliged to win and win well ? ...

    " i do not agree, football is not like that" says junior " sure the team has to play well, to run non stop and try to entertain and score as much as possible, but the best team does not always win. We can take nothing for granted"

    Telê santana's contract is about to be completed and the coach's proposal will be around seven hundred thousand cruzeiros a month for a contract until the 1982 world cup. But if there is no agreement between the CBF and Telê this could make way for a new coach to take over as brazil boss. In junior's opinion, would it be a negative if a new man took charge of the selecão ?...

    " of course, obviously. Work has been going on for months with telê and in my opinion we are half way there. We will have to win the qualifiers and then the process will continue towards the world cup. A change of coach would change our philosophy and there would be no time for a new one. I hope an agreement is reached between Telê and the CBF"

    The spirit of competition for places in the team is strong within the selecão. Serginho made a comment the other day which is very true - " in the selecão you cannot get hurt or be sick, because whoever takes your place does everything not to give it you back"...

    ...and Junior agrees... " its a sign that most players are the same technical and physical level. The one who gets a place grabs his chance with all his strength"
    " i know that Pedrinho is playing and training well and is waiting for his moment to take my place, but its sincere and fair competition. I know i can't give him a chance for that to happen. I want to stay on the team for good"
    " like any player i have virtues and defects. I still make mistakes when marking, but i think i make up for it with my offensive play. Fortunately tele is an attack minded coach. He understands that football is about attacking, to pressure the opponent and score goals. I do not disappoint in that aspect of the game"

    But Junior must be careful. Pedrinho does not hide the fact he doesn't accept being a substitute... " i want to be the owner of the left side" said pedrinho last week " I'm just waiting for my chance"

    When Zico is not in the team , junior is the free kick taker ( this was before Éder became a starter) . Junior does not hit the ball too hard, but his accuracy is incredibly dangerous according to goalkeeper Waldir Peres...

    " Junior knows how to hit the ball" says Peres
    " the kick is not very strong, but the placement worries keepers. We saw Junior score a free kick against west germany at the mundialito, and the keeper could do nothing about it even though he did not hit it hard "

    Junior is one of the most joyful players in the brazil team, he has rio samba in his veins and he is always the first to samba either on the team bus or the locker room, before each game and training session.
    Although Pedrinho may fight him all the way , everybody knows that Junior is the absolute holder of of the left back position....
     
  2. Guga Sukhi

    Guga Sukhi New Member

    Dynamo Tbilisi
    Georgia
    Mar 11, 2018
    Tbilisi, Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    When exactly Tele's contract had to expire? Before the qualifiers or after the qualifiers?
     
  3. Guga Sukhi

    Guga Sukhi New Member

    Dynamo Tbilisi
    Georgia
    Mar 11, 2018
    Tbilisi, Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #303 Guga Sukhi, Mar 17, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2018

    Also I wonder if Junior did ever hint about his preferences between Eder and Ze Sergio? I loved Eder. But later I acknowledged that I was a bit biased: he scored the decider against the team I hated the most – USSR… Later I found Eder a little bit too straightforward, a little bit too predictable player who mostly relied on the force of his left leg. Well, I still admire Eder and all what I said above count only in comparison with Ze Sergio, who was a very creative player.

    In 1981 qualification game against Venezuela Ze Sergio comes on the pitch instead of Eder somewhat on 55th minute. After that moment one can see how Junior tries to help Ze Sergio to demonstrate skills. Whenever Junior gets a ball he raises his had and looks for Ze Sergio. In 90% cases he passes ball to Ze Sergio. It made me think Junior preferred to play with Ze Sergio. Am I wrong? Did he ever make a hint or express opinion on this issue?
     
  4. giles varley

    giles varley Member+

    Oct 8, 2013
    nottingham uk
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    ... Telê's contract wasn't due to expire. The contract was just changed and renegotiated at different stages of santana's time in charge.
     
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  5. giles varley

    giles varley Member+

    Oct 8, 2013
    nottingham uk
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I mentioned this earlier in the thread...they were two different types of players - Zé Sérgio was one of the best players in brazil. He was faster than Éder and he was a better dribbler. But during the mundialito and after - ze sergio lost form and then got injured... Éder was a better passer, crosser and obviouly better at shooting and free kicks. I have an article about this which i will post later in the thread...
    Brazil seemed to play better as a team with Éder on the left. Junior did not have a preference as far as I'm aware.
     
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  6. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    In 1981, he had an infamous fight with Eder during a match between Atlético Mineiro and Cruzeiro in which turned into a massive brawl between the players, but only Nelinho was sent off during the mayhem. Tele Santana was at the stadium that day. Some said that it caused Nelinho a place on the 1982 team. Ironically, Nelinho joined Atlético Mineiro in 1982 not long after the incident, where he teamed up with Eder, Reinaldo, Luizinho and Toninho Cerezo. You probably know more about Nelinhoi's red card and his relationship with Eder and/or Santana.

    I do not understand Portuguese. Nelinho was probably the number 4.

     
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  7. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Wowww!!!

    When he was playing, I didn't noticed he was so fast :rolleyes::)
     
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  8. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I started this blog team in 2014 simply about Careca's injury and the 1982 team. Later, I re-edited the team a few years ago. I added Reinaldo and Emerson Leao to the team as well, but I did not try to alter the original team too much. I just filled the problems of the 1982 team with three players. The three new players in question had been widely discussed.

    I might have used this thread as a reference. Late last year, I revisited the team and added more information. This thread helped me with some information that I did not know about. That was why i brought this thread back in January. I did come up with Nelinho's problem in 1982 while searching through the internet. Since I already had Leandro, Nelinho was never seriously considered.

    https://soccerfootballwhatever.blogspot.com/2016/01/the-brazil-1982.html
     
  9. samuel_clemens

    Dec 20, 2005
    Los Angeles CA
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I'm not sure if this has been discussed on this thread already but the reason that Tele left Reinaldo out of the squad most likely was that Reinaldo was a homosexual. (Similar story with Leandro and Renato being left out of the 86 WC)

    Socrates talks about it in this video:

     
  10. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Leandro and Renato homosexuals ? That's something I've never heard. Renato definitely isn't. Leandro don't know anything about it.
     
  11. samuel_clemens

    Dec 20, 2005
    Los Angeles CA
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    There's a few things off about Renato. Despite the public image and the folklore of him having 1000s of female lovers throughout his life he has been married (or "married") to the same woman for several decades and has only 1 daughter. When you compare that to guys of similar rep that have illegitimate kids all over the world and multiple women on spousal support such as Pele, Edmundo, Romario, Paulo Cezar Lima and so forth, something doesn't add up with his claims. There's the aforementioned rumors of his affair with Leandro being the reason for both getting booted off the squad by Tele in 86. His yearly carnival getaways with Maradona (another suspect, check the link). His favorite musicians being Madonna and Elton John as he mentions in the vid below. What kind of straight adult male would list Madonna as his favorite singer in the 80s, she was a Gay Icon. The entire video here screams homosexual tbh. And there's more. But I don't want to turn this into some kind of national enquirer typo post.

     
  12. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Leandro didn't get booted by Tele. Renato did. Leandro refused to join the team in the very last minute on the flight to Mexico. There are a couple of versions for that. (1) His knee was busted so he didn't want to go (this story is told by Elzo here). This may match Tele's willingness to take players even if they were injured. Zico has said he didn't want to go to Mexico 86 because he was recovering from injury but Tele convinced him. (2) Solidarity with Renato who helped him walked with him through the front door of the concentração (breaking curfew) instead jumping a wall because Leandro was too drunk to do so.

    If Tele cut Renato because of his sexual preference, he would have cut Leandro as well. So this doesn't really make sense.

    Not getting into the merit of your theory about Renato, but in the linked video he is asked specifically about a female singer. That's a bit different than what you made it sound like.
     
  13. samuel_clemens

    Dec 20, 2005
    Los Angeles CA
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #313 samuel_clemens, Mar 28, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2022
    They were both suspended from training and put in detention by Tele after the "incident" happened. Then later they were pardoned by CBF president at the time, Nabi Abi Chedid. (see vid below). That was the prep that took place weeks or months prior to the World Cup. Later when Tele announced his 22 Renato was left out and Leandro made the list. Leandro then refused to go to Mexico in solidarity to Renato. This is all speculation of course, but maybe Tele didn't like the idea of his players fornicating with each other during the tournament, so he picked one and left the other one out? Leaving two of the best players of that generation out based on their lifestyle would've been too much.


     

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