Substitution Rules

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by sam_gordon, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member

    Feb 27, 2017
    OK, what are your substitution rules?

    Here, at U14 & below, it's unlimited subs. Starting at U15 in the state's top league (not sure about lower leagues), a subbed player can not re-enter in a half. (HS is unlimited subs, I'm only referring to club/travel).

    I found out the state is considering changing the rule starting in the fall. Starting at U13 (when they go 11v11), each team can only sub three times in a game. You can sub as many players as you want each of those times, but would only be able to sub three times. This includes subbing for an injury. So if you've used all of your opportunities (or don't want to "waste one") and you have a player injured, you'd need to play down a man until they could come back.

    Supposedly this would encourage coaches to coach the game instead of coaching subs. I'm not sure I totally understand that. I was also told this was being encouraged from US Soccer, but don't know what that means either.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Pretty damn stupid and unnecessary if you ask me…classic solution in search of a problem…

    I don’t believe this change will encourage coaches to coach the game more than they do or don’t do all ready…but it does sound like it would encourage teenagers to play injured…good job idiots!

    Wouldn’t surprise me in the least if this was being pushed by US Soccer…given their predilection for forcing international standards on a youth population where only 0.01% will ever play internationally…
     
  3. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member

    Business Metrics SC
    Apr 26, 2012
    It could be good. I always got a lot of questions from new parents, and heard comments sometimes from opposing coaches, because I coached like a soccer coach, not a hockey coach. In a 70 minute u13/14 game, I'd look to make my first subs around the 15 minute mark. So when Mr Hockey was subbing kids every 3 minutes, it'd look funny. Sometimes they'd even encourage their team to "move the ball faster" since my team must be tired.

    Oddly enough if you teach the game is not just end to end long kicks and chasing it down, kids learn to pace themselves.

    The reasoning I heard for doing this was tht it takes players a while to settle in, observe the game - what are the opponents on my side of the field like, who is fast, who can only use their left/right foot, who likes to dribble, who wants to get rid of the ball as quickly as possible.
     
  4. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    But really, how often are you see subs every 3 minutes? I am sure it happens, but enough to justify a rule change to “correct” it? I doubt it…

    Most the teams my son has played on or against substitutes very much along the lines you do and describe…2-3 times a half, 10-15 minutes apart…

    Even with that, it doesn’t stop certain parents from complaining that the coach is disrupting the flow of the game…not surprisingly, mostly from parents of kids get subbed out at that moment…but that’s neither here nor there…

    Bad coaches will always find a way to be bad coaches….I guess I would rather have them [bad coaches] abusing the unlimited substitution rules, then having them encouraging kids to play injured in order to avoid playing a man down….
     
  5. jvgnj

    jvgnj Member

    Apr 22, 2015
    I don't see an issue with altering the substitution rules to look more like "real soccer" as the kids get older but don't see why it has to extend down to 13U/14U kids who are still in middle school.
     
  6. CornfieldSoccer

    Aug 22, 2013
    As someone who likes (but didn't grow up with and isn't knowledgable about) hockey, I've always wondered how those players get into the flow of a game and impact it given the short length of their shifts. I've had that conversation more than once on soccer sidelines with people like me who are hockey outsiders.
     
  7. pu.ma

    pu.ma Member

    Feb 8, 2018
    Hockey is all about speed and optimally, every shift, the player is giving his all. To beat some 1v1, to get to the puck first, to rush back on defense, you basically have to outskate the opponent. In addition, unlike running, you dont decelerate to stop. It's a hard stop so really taxing on the legs. Add to that the threat of getting hit hard and generally physicality, you get in the flow. Also, coaches generally teach players a system in competitive youth hockey. They're out there to win games and players know exactly what they are supposed to do (so as to not get benched) so more robotic and less creativity.
     
  8. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member

    Feb 27, 2017
    I wonder how much of it was done to discourage "subbing as time wasting". Like when team A goes up 1 with ~15 minutes to play and then subs every other minute. Yes, the ref can add time for that, but most times they don't (or it doesn't appear they do).

    Again, I'm not necessarily advocating for this, just throwing out a theory.
     
  9. ptref

    ptref Member

    Aug 5, 2015
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    This idea is what is being used in the US Soccer Development Academy. You only have a certain number of substitution opportunities. Not sure of the specific reasoning for this. Makes it a pain in the butt for referees to keep track.
     
  10. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member

    Feb 27, 2017
    Really? Just put tick marks on the paper. Doesn't seem difficult to me.
     
  11. ptref

    ptref Member

    Aug 5, 2015
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    You also have to record the individual player numbers of each player going in and out to make sure that teams don't try and cheat and put a player back in that has already come out.
     
  12. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member

    Feb 27, 2017
    Nope, that's easy. They do that now... every player has a "player card" with their name and picture on it. The starters (each half) give the AR or the C their card and it goes in the pocket. Each sub, when they come in, gives their card to the AR or C. No card? Then you must have already played.

    This is the second year my son has been playing under that rule (no re-entry), and my understanding is it's been going on for a while.

    So, give the AR the cards, and while he's taking them, the C marks which team (or both) did subs. Should take no extra time at all.
     
  13. ptref

    ptref Member

    Aug 5, 2015
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    What about when the play is on the far side of the field, and the AR is all the way down in the corner? It takes additional time for the AR or ref to go to midfield and get the player card, and then more time for the official to get back into position for the subsequent restart.
     
  14. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member

    Feb 27, 2017
    What about it? I'm telling you what they do, and it's not only my state league, but it was MRL last year, and presumably GLR this year.

    If you think about it, it would take about as much time as the going off player jogging from the 18 to the midfield point and the new player getting back into place.
     

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