statement regarding 1906 ultras protest

Rain or no rain it's still not safe to do in a wooden stadium, and it's still specifically against the rules. Coming up with excuses doesn't negate the fact whomever did it, was in the wrong and deserved to be sanctioned for it. Cheer hard for and support the team, but do it smart and within the rules. It's not a hard to do or hard to understand concept...

As for the FO video with Charlie Sheen in it. They had nothing offensive in the video, as Charlie Sheen may very well be nuts, but he has not been diagnosed as such (not unlike Gary Busey). And the FO video definitely nothing of a sexual nature like the tasteless tifo. To continue to compare the two is disingenuous at best...

 

To me...this is getting way TOO much play here. It is suppose to be about the TEAM. Was the banner crossing the line?...maybe yes and maybe no, as you can see in this forum everyone has their own take on it. Was it suggestive? maybe...but it seems to me that it has become a game between the Ultras and the FO. Let's see if we can tick each other off. The FO is between a rock and a hard place. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't, and will be thrown under the bus no matter what stance they take. The Ultras do a great job, and they were definitely missed last nite. The game sounded like it was played in church. However, they must think twice before they act. I can remember when the team first returned and everyone was attacking the Ultras for NOT doing a good job, and being outdone by visiting groups....now they have numbers, and in section 109 they rock. I am not taking sides here and I DO see everyones point, but we need to look at the big picture. This team needs everyone. How sad was it to see attendance drop to the 8,000 figure last night after the team has gotten off to a good start. They are playing entertaining soccer, showing signs of a good year, and the FO is doing their best to make the entire experience at Buck Shaw a positive one. Kudos to Mr. Kaval for what he has done so far in a very short time. Everyone NEEDS to grow the franchise, and get people out to support the Quakes. Is it any wonder why the new stadium is not being built for 20,000. When the team is coming off a great finish from last season, gets off to a good start this year ( no one is on fire in the West ) and only 8,000 show up.....thats a shame. Instead of arguing over this stuff....Get Over It. Time to move on. I am sure there will be more BS between the FO & the Ultras....but learn from it and find a way to make it work. This franchise will be successful, but will they be playing in front of a handful? Need to get people out.....Don G. says it all the time. Yesterday I stopped at 7-11 on Benton...just a block away from the stadium. The clerk asked what time the game was, and said she didn't have any schedules. I gave here a stack of them, and she said she would hand them out to customers. One block away and no Quakes stuff available ....REALLY? We all need to do our part however small it is. I am not trying to minimize the Ultras feelings on censorship, or the FO's right to do what they believe is the right thing for ALL the fans..but how about we focus on the big picture here for the good of the team. The FO has to manage....and the Ultras need to do their thing.....just use a little common sense here. I would hope that the Ultras are back in their seats and in full voice for Chivas. Your needed. You made your point, everyone has chimed in their thoughts....move on. Focus on the Earthquakes and put your energy there. They are the ones who really need it.

 

It's really strange that they say it was because of complaints that a Seattle Supporter made. The first tweet @SJEarthquakes about how offended they were was from a Revs fan. While there were complaints about it from Sounders fans, it's because there were complaints from female fans of nearly every team.

There were even more complaints about the tifo on the #RCTID tag (that's the Timbers Army tag) than the #Sounders one. I even got this reply from a TA "No words for that. As much as I hate your team, I'd never ever consider something so tasteless".

Most of the complaints I saw happened on Sunday, apparently too far back for twitter to let me find the tweets. It pretty much offended supporters of every club, but I will admit that I found no offended Quakes fans on twitter.

 

The FO here were inappropriate and hypocritical. Inappropriate because they dealt with this after the fact instead of at the time. If they found it crossed the line of either offensiveness or obscenity, they should have talked with them in person and taken the banner away right when it happened. Dealing with this via email later is just about as stupid and disrespectful as you can get. You can't accomplish good communication hiding behind email pronouncements--that's just chickenshit. And you don't get to change your mind after the fact because opposing supporters, trying to create trouble, complain. They either found it inappropriate at the time or they didn't. Seattle supporters have done inappropriate and offensive things, including mock the national anthem and throw things at Quakes fans--they didn't put them on probation (since that would hurt the wallet with lost ticket sales).

This particular TIFO is in bad taste. Wish they hadn't chosen it, or at least made the women into men just to steer clear of anyone taking it that way. As a woman, I find it offensive, no matter if I get the humor in it. It's not offensive enough to complain about though. But if the FO puts out a video based on Charlie Sheen humor, then it's hypocritical to change their minds and say the Ultras cannot.

The FO is getting a lot of things wrong lately, not just this. The game atmosphere was horrible. The game was horrible. They're going to lose a lot more fans due to that than they are catering to some Seattle supporter who sees the banner on BigSoccer after the fact and has nothing better to do than create trouble.

 

Here is my view on this: I could see how the TIFO could been seen as offensive...but not any more offensive than the Seattle fans chanting "drag him off and shoot him" after one of our players got hurt and was laying on the field for a few moments.

With that being said, like most things in life it is not the incident that is the most important thing, but rather how one reacts. In this case the FO should have just contacted the Ultras and said, "hey, not a big deal, but we got some complaints and we don't want to get in trouble with the league...moving forward can you make sure the TIFOs are not of bad taste? Thanks for your on going support as a key component of the club."

Issue would have been settled....

 

Let's make it clear: This protest was not just about that tifo. We had tifo removed by the security before -Freddie Ljungber's middle finger-and none of us complained. We have dealt with extremely hostile FO's before (eg Lallas and his staff) and we still moved on.
Our group was always looking to maintain a good relationship with the FO. We always attended their meetings, listen to their suggestions and complaints, and tried to be on the same page, because in our opinion this is how things should be. We had absolutely no problem with the guy with the flare being punished and with the majority of the sanctions our group received from the FO. Even last year we had our tifo banned for one game, and none of us complained about it. We are not absurd. However, there were too many problems this year alone.

In the past, we got to solve our differences with the FO through good, productive communication. We tried the exact same thing this year. We did our best to police ourselves. As an example, during 2010 the FO banned only one of our membesr. As the leader of the group, I banned five of my guys because they wouldn't respect the stadium rules and we considered them liability. Since the beginning of this season, we communicated almost daily with the FO, and we attended at least 4 meetings, 3 of them during our work hours. Sadly, we hit a dead end. Out of respect for the FO, I will not get into any details. I think these matters should still be private between us and them, and hopefully one day we can get to an agreement. The Ultras are still supporting the FO in everything they are doing for this team, especially in their mission of building up the stadium. We openly supported Dave Kaval since day one, and we appreciate his enthusiasm and what he has done so far for this organization. We just hope he will understand better the type of support that we provide, and that we are not here to cause trouble, but to support those guys playing on the field. When you have a group of 250+ younger, rowdy people at a sporting event, it's impossible not to have some kind of incidents. However we tried to keep that at a minimum, and compared to other MLS supporter groups, we have a pretty low record of incidents. I think it's unfair to expect a perfect record from our group, and everytime an incident occurs to punish the whole group. The employees of the professional security company that the club pays for, makes mistakes, and the club doesn't punish the whole company. Then why punish us, the ones who volunteer to police our section, and the whole group in general for the actions of individuals that in some cases have no conection to our group?

After the past few weeks, we, and some long time neutral fans as well, got the impression that the FO does not want the Ultras to be part of the Quakes future anymore. We were curious to see how it would be like to not have the Ultras at a home game, so we decided to sit down, be silent and just watch the game peacefully like any other fan. It was not an offensive, obscene or disrespectful protest.

Your concerns for what the players thought when they played in such a silent atmosphere is very valid. We were concerned about that, too. We talked to them before the game, we made it clear that this has nothing to do with them and we apologized for not supporting them loudly like we usually do. Most of us are friends with the players. They know us and we know them very well. They understood.

I would like to apologize to those fans who wanted to sing with us last night, but couldn't because of our protest. I would also like to thank for the support that people showed us inside the stadium. This month we are celebrating 8 years since the group was formed, and this is the first time we had a silent protest. We really wish it didn't get to this point, but we felt like there was no other option. We felt unwelcomed at Buckshaw, we felt disrespected and at some points humiliated. This comes mostly after private meetings and conversations with the FO, so it's hard for the regular posters on here to get the whole picture.

 

This.

 

Wow, this is what that "censorship" thing last night was all about? I remember seeing a picture of that tifo posted here last week and commented saying something like "wow, don't you think that's just a little inappropriate?" I can't say I'm surprised something happened because of it.

I'm sorry, but yes, that banner was obscene and offensive. Of course there's part of me that found it funny in that vulgar, childish humor kind of way, but that's just simply not something that the average person wants to see or their children to see. A guy in his underwear with his hands on the heads of two girls on their knees in their underwear? Denying it was supposed to be anything but two girls about to give a guy a blow j*b is dishonest - you guys knew exactly what the tifo was all about when you designed it and hoisted it at the game.

If some Sounders fans did complain, I can't imagine there weren't people from the home side that didn't complain either - and that is what the FO took action for. They're simply protecting their investment and their organization. Imagine you're some people at your first Quakes game with a couple of kids, and that thing unfurls. Do you think those parents are going to want to come back? What you guys put up is reflective of the organization, and the FO wants to draw people and keep people, not turn them away.

I understand you guys were wanting to jab the Sounders supporters, but somewhere along the line, someone in your group should have said this was a bad idea. There are lots of other ways you guys could get your message across without it involving blow j*bs. Lots of people I'm sure had/have no problem with it, but you can't expect to put something like that up and not get some backlash because of it.

I hope now that you've gotten that "protest" out of your systems you'll be back at next home game wildly showing support like you guys always do.

 

Agreed. I would hope that non-Ultras would urge the Quakes to commute the punishment.

We're all on the same team.

 

Couldn't agree more. One week was enough. Let's see you guys full force again next home game.

 

I think we can all agree on that. 5 weeks was too much for any kind of punishment even for that particular Tifo.

 

I think its a little sad that had the tifo shown a violent act against a Galaxy and Sounder fan (say, lynching) it would have been ok. Yet because it showed women in a "submissive" potentially sexual position, the world is coming to an end and we can't have THE CHILDREN see it.

REmember, graphic depiction of violence: OK
Timid depiction of sexuality: 5 game 'probation'.

It was frustrating standing at the front of 109 the whole game and being quiet. Some Ultras found it disappointing that the Casbah did not join in on their protest. Considering the fact that nobody in the Casbah was alerted to any protest until minutes before the game started, the fact that the Casbah participated in ANY way in the Ultras' protest was a feat. The Casbah's silence lasted 10 minutes. I had suggested the first 45, but the (incredibly) drunk members didn't want to wait that long.

Note to the Ultras... its not really a show of unity when you outright demand that the Casbah join in your protest, especially when you factor in your continued refusal to join in on our chants when we get them going on game days. You actually wave your members to stay quiet when the Casbah gets something going.

Be glad you got 10 minutes out of them. Maybe you should exchange information with one of the leaders of the Casbah so they know wtf is going on rather than force your protest upon them.

As for the (poop)show that were 2 of the Casbah's members... christ guys, if you think you're going to vomit, at least do it in the bathroom.

 

I showed up in the casbah not knowing a thing and didn't understand why everyone was being so quiet. On one hand, I think it was a bit childish to protest in that way. On the other hand, it's really the only ace card you guys have in the deck, so I can see why you would do it.

If your point was that you guys, a volunteer grassroots effort, bring a lot of value to the whole game experience, then I think you made it. You should now follow up with an offer to engage in productive dialogue, admit that your tifo was in poor taste, but that the FO should have gone about their business in a different way. You can make all of these points in a logical, matter of fact way.

I wish I had as much inside knowledge of the FO operations as I did during the Johnny Moore days, but unfortunately, I don't. Even so, I'm happy to offer my support as some kind of liaison to bring both sides together.

I'd be very curious to see what the response is on Monday.

 

I thought the Casbah was supporting the protest last night throught the entire game (well except for the drumming), I mean, for what I read here the stadium was as silent as an empty church.

 

Since these were our problems, we thought it would be unfair to involve the Casbah. However we met with some of your leaders before the game, and we told you what the story was. You guys decided to be silent for 10 minutes to show solidarity with us and we thank you for that. I also give you guys major props for trying to step up and make some noise. Keep up the good work

 

A longer ban. Or ...no response at all.

 

You should have brought back the Freddie Ljungber's middle finger banner for the Seattle game. It was hilarious when you did it last year, and even the Seattle fans would have found it funny this year.

The banner you are protesting over, I thought wasn't relevant to soccer and not really that funny. Perhaps when you are older and have a 10 year old daughter you'd like to bring to games you'll think differently about such signs. I hope the Ultra get over it, and are back to cheering for the Quakes from here on out.

Me I was at the fringe of the Cashbash group last night trying to help getting some cheers going occasionally, and appreciate those that were there too.

 

That egg on my face tastes pretty good. This is what happens when I speak before getting all the facts.

 

I have to defend the Ultras, especially on the artistic/intelligentsia side. Regardless of style or agreement (can have a different take)--but in the end we're in the same boat supporting the club. As for the Sounders fan(s) who complained--they should stop whining especially since they do the same thing in their stadium and usually the thing to do is to respond louder or just smirk and carry on. If they don't like what we do at Buck Shaw then watch it on TV. It's our house we can cheer how we please (and they can do what they like with their own support).

Not going to complain about the Casbah either--they joined in the first 10 minutes (fair enough) and carried on with the cheers so props to the lads for carrying the flag (now buddy (he knows who he is), you need to get back Senor Gayle back into the foray--you're better off just cheering like the rest of us folk--or just drum with a Carnaval troupe... )

I'd rather see the fans protest at the stage during the game, and when it's over say this is bullshit, or give the sign of disapproval to the FO.

Plus if the team can do a bit on Carlos Estevez on youtube (aka Charlie Sheen) then the Ultras, the Casbah, or anyone else can do the same. If they did the same thing at Qwest--all I'm going to do is laugh (or the Quakes fans put up another tifo telling their team sucks).

The puke from last night--well, sums it up... but props to the lads for protesting and sending a message--probably in the best way possible and with little or no use of some of George Carlin's vocabulary. To each their own with the banner (anyone can have their own take) but I'm not going to worry about that (unless I have kids but that's for another thread--but not going to complain like soccer dad on that or 4 letter words)--I'd be more worried about fisticuffs among fans--be within or with other teams fans. Regardless artistic/creative speech trumps even if it's outrageous.

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo"]YouTube - Children[/ame]

 

What the hell are you talking about!!??

 

Don, Don, Don. Slow down. Of course you have the right to free speech. No one's disputing that. You just don't have the right to free speech in someone else's private property. You are on a catholic university campus, for pete's sake. The SCU would have the right, just as the Quakes have every right, to "refuse service" to anyone based on what they do or say. The banner was offensive. If Owen (5) were just a few years older, I would have had to explain it to him. I'd be curious to see how John Jussen, who has two boys about the age they'd be curious about that sort of thing, felt about it. The Quakes game is for soccer, not that kind of discussion. It's very similar to going into someone's home. Sure, you can say anything you want. But don't be surprised if the person kicks you out if you say something offensive.

Notwithstanding, if there are other, underlying issues, fine. Deal with them. The protest was well organized, and there is no doubt, no doubt at all, that the Ultras bring the atmosphere at the game. But I think Tony said it about right. If the Ultras were going to do something that risky, borderline, then they shouldn't be surprised they got a probation. And I'm not even passing judgment on the protest, which I think was fine. If that's what the Ultras response was, it was good. Just don't be surprised that there are consequences to what you say.

 

I stopped in to see what caused the dip in attendance, The Quakes are so promising this season I was surprised at the mediocre numbers. I guess this is at least part of the answer.

Too bad.

I think art is art no matter how lame or ill-conceived. This particular tifo certainly qualifies as both. However the stadium is not a forum where anyone has a "right" to free and unfettered artistic expression. On the street outside yes, but not in the stands, anyone who is indignant on those grounds should maybe read the constitution AND read the back of your match ticket.

There's no question that the content of the banner could be regarded as offensive. There's also no question (in my mind at least) that being "offensive" was integral to the intent of the artist(s). Those arguing that the material wasn't offensive should get a grip on reality because that judgement comes from those to whom it's displayed.

The thing is unrelated to the game, unrelated to the team, not funny or even comprehensible to most viewers and it's reasonable that the FO would act to curtail it no matter where the complaint came from.

So you got yellow-carded, you made your point - move on and go back to the game! You're hurting your team by staying away.