Stadium Wants/Needs/Must Haves

Discussion in 'Columbus Crew SC' started by catfish9, Oct 30, 2018.

  1. catfish9

    catfish9 Member+

    Jul 14, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Glitter, Pixie Dust whatever it f'ing takes.

    I think I spent about $50 Million on bridges alone.
     
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  2. SLSHOT01

    SLSHOT01 Member

    Columbus
    United States
    Oct 26, 2017
    Galion, Ohio
    Disappointed lightweights! They are $#@&ING sparkles! All stadium development plans must come with sparkles!
     
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  3. POdinCowtown

    POdinCowtown Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2002
    Columbus
    They could save some of that bridge money by buying the CSX right of way between the Savko and Nationwide parcels.
     
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  4. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    Oh, I'm so dreadfully embarrassed.
     
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  5. catfish9

    catfish9 Member+

    Jul 14, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And do what with trains that pass through there? Someone mentioned that one small section of the track is unused.
     
  6. POdinCowtown

    POdinCowtown Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2002
    Columbus
    Use the section of tracks to the east of the Savko parcel while decommissioning the section to the west of it. It's a wye currently but traffic isn't heavy enough to need it anymore.
     
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  7. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If it wasn't needed, CSX would have decommissioned it already--as has been the practice nationwide over the past 20-40 years. Rail pays property taxes on it--and more taxes if the line is there (considered "developed") than if the tracks are removed. For a downtown property, they are probably paying quite a bit.
     
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  8. POdinCowtown

    POdinCowtown Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2002
    Columbus
    Nope, it's tax free according to the auditor. Parcel is 010-035238. They may simply be ducking cleanup costs by keeping it active. Railroad has owned it since 1930 so it's probably got a lot of axle grease if nothing else. More likely anything could have spilled from railcars over the decades.
     
  9. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #84 kgilbert78, Nov 7, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
    It appears that it is NOT tax free, even if it looks like that on the auditor's site. For land used "in railroad operations", they value the entire rail system in the state and then divvy up the taxes from that, rather than individual plot values--but it does seem to take into account the value of the land in each "taxing district" as well. If I'm reading the Ohio Revised Code right (and I am not a lawyer). It's pretty dense. Has to do with being a "public utility" and how they are taxed. Basically, land used in railroad operations is handled differently from standard properties--but it is still taxed.

    This is part of the issue when comparing rail and trucks for transportation of goods. Rail pays property tax on their lines (for the most part--there are some government owned lines) while trucks do not as the government provides the roads. Yes, trucks do pay fuel taxes, of course, which helps pay for the highway system--but so does rail--and the fuel taxes they pay go to roads, just like trucks, which forces rail to support their competition indirectly.

    For those who are interested, try

    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/5727
     
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  10. TheRealBilbo

    TheRealBilbo Member+

    Apr 5, 2016
    Creosote in the ties. Plus, railroads are notorious for cars dripping stuff. Maybe some cool, currently illegal weed killers used to maintain the tracks, along with the accompanying 2,3,7,8-TCDD. Another favorite... Used transformer oil that contains PCBs. The navy used that on the parking lot at Ft. Zachary Taylor back in the day.
     
  11. jairadballerina

    jairadballerina Member+

    Sep 15, 2004
    C-Town
    Primary Stadium Wants....existence in this plane.
     
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  12. POdinCowtown

    POdinCowtown Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2002
    Columbus
    Ok, fair enough. The taxes on a few hundred feet of their track will be negligible. A long thin property which can't be used for much else doesn't have much market value so they usually don't have anyone to sell it to. In this case it would be useful for someone to acquire.
     
  13. POdinCowtown

    POdinCowtown Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2002
    Columbus
    Thanks.

    How far down do they typically have to dig when a line or railyard is decommissioned? I'd think the process could take months once work starts and even longer to get approvals?
     
  14. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I doubt it would take much. There are former rail lines being turned into pedestrian paths all over the city.
     
  15. Pauncho

    Pauncho Member+

    Mar 2, 1999
    Bexley, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Disused rail lines are often repurposed as bicycle trails. When a long, thin piece of a farm is needed to connect sections, or the deed to the railbed is merely some kind of easement given up by the ancestor of the current farmer which reverts on closure of the active rail line, local juries in eminent domain actions usually award their friend and neighbor gigantic awards for those long, thin strips of land.
    The excuse that the bike trail cuts off easy access from one side to the other because they have to drive farm machinery to a crossing is almost always 90% horse manure. It's all about the rurals doing a solid for a family they have known for five generations, fleecing people they don't like anyway.
     
  16. Minnman

    Minnman Member+

    Feb 11, 2000
    Columbus, OH, USA
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Okay, bear with me...

    Back in the old Crew to Austin thread, when we were talking about the Nationwide site and RR tracks, I posted thew following:

    "One complicating factor re: the rail line is that it's owned by CSX, and is a part of the reportedly (according to Wikipedia) heavily used Columbus Subdivision rail line, running from Columbus to Fostoria. It's a major coal transport line. There'd be the cost of physically relocating the lines, but also the cost to CSX of removing a valuable portion of a commercial rail line for some weeks/months. All that traffic would need to be re-routed, somehow. And that cost would get added onto the stadium project."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus_Subdivision

    Page 7 of this document:

    http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Division...pter 3 - Ohio Freight Rail System Profile.pdf

    "Columbus Subdivision: This former C&O line extends 121.6 miles between Toledo and Columbus. The subdivision is primarily single-track and train movements are controlled by CTC and ABS. Speeds range between 30 and 50 mph for all trains. This line is part of CSX’s core coal network."

    CSX is the largest coal transporter east of the Mississippi:

    https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/customers/commodities/coal/

    The odd thing is that, on the CSX system map, the line that bisects the two large Nationwide parcels is grayed out (implying it's not part of the CSX system). The line that runs along the eastern boundary of the smaller site - that crosses Nationwide, loops around Huntington Park, then crosses Neil Ave. - shows as an active CSX line.

    So, on the one hand, this CSX line does seem to be a major coal hub for the railroad, which implies that moving traffic off of it might be problematic. On the other hand, CSX's own system map implies that they're not using (or don't own) the small segment of line that most dramatically affects the potential stadium site.

    So, who does?

    Norfolk Southern also operates lines through Columbus, but they skirt the northern and southern boundaries of the potential site.

    Then there's Genesee and Wyoming, which is a "short line railroad holding company" that own rail lines all over the country. Their system map seems to show this line as being part of their system. In 2008, G&W acquired the Columbus and Ohio River Railroad, which seems to have been the company that actually owned this track.

    Which I suppose doesn't necessarily get us anywhere, since this is the result of 30 minutes of internet sleuthing by an amateur (though I did subscribe to Model Railroader magazine as a kid). But if CSX doesn't actually use this small segment of the line that runs through these parcels, it might make the RR issue much less sticky/costly. It sorta depends on what G&W uses it for.
     
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  17. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good analysis. I suspect that the wye (which is what we are talking about--the one "extra" piece) is used to turn locomotives. That could be pretty important for a shortline. Note the double tracks on some of the lines--that indicates more usage.

    Burying the lines would not work due to grade issues--especially for coal trains, which need as little a grade change as possible due to their weight and bulk. The north part of the line may also be needed for future passenger rail service to Chicago as well as 3C service (they keep talking about it). That line runs by the convention center, which would be the best location for a station (I think there were some design features in the original Ohio Center that allowed for this). There were articles about the former within the past two weeks.

    For those who want more info, see the following link.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wye_(rail)
     
  18. DAK77

    DAK77 Member+

    Nov 10, 2008
    Grandview Heights, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We may need to keep the rails in place for future hype trains
     
  19. ZipSix

    ZipSix BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 20, 2000
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What, no biofiltration pond?
     
  20. Big J 0526

    Big J 0526 Member

    Columbus Crew SC
    United States
    Sep 8, 2010
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    all it needs is 18-20k loud crew supporters cheering on the team. the rest is window dressing.
     
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  21. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    Flipping through channels and caught a bit of the Steelers game. Yellow empty seats do no one any favors.
     
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  22. catfish9

    catfish9 Member+

    Jul 14, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think consensus black and yellow checkerboard pattern is fan fav. Simply alternate every other seat so the whole freaking stadium is a giant checker pattern. If one of two seats are vacant it would be hard to tell especially with Crew fans wearing a good mix of both colors. In Pittsburgh almost everyone wears black which make empty seats more visable. but in that game last night, seats were empty because Carolina didn't show up. That was a good old fashioned beat down in every facet of the game.
     
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  23. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Put the team crest back on the stadium displays for our trophies.

    For the 2002 USOC; 2004, 2008, & 2009 Shields; and the 2008 MLS Cup it should all be the original crest.

    If we hoist it this year, then the circle crest should be on it.

    Respect your roots.
     
  24. Flyer Fan

    Flyer Fan Member+

    Apr 18, 1999
    Columbus, OH
    I'll classify this as a want versus a need, and it follows respecting your roots and your history: make the official team shop large enough to be a miniature museum. In my opinion the team's not old enough to have a true hall of fame or similar, but make the shop large enough to house the various trophies and other awards the team has won and make them more visible to the general public rather than in the lobby of the team offices where fans aren't likely to go. Make wall-sized versions of many of the concourse banners and line the team shop walls with them.

    Or do something similar...maybe it's not in the team shop but in a space adjacent to it, something still more accessible than the team offices.
     
  25. TheRealBilbo

    TheRealBilbo Member+

    Apr 5, 2016
    Been a while since I did site remediation, and most of my work was in Florida, so things may be a little different... Typically, they are only concerned with the top 2 feet of soil, unless groundwater is an issue. If contaminated materials are left on site, in what is call risk-based clean up, a note is made on the deed to the property. Risk-based clean up typically has looser requirements for commercial land use than residential.

    My guess would be that excavation will be guided by what is needed for the final land use. The issue will be who does excavation (haz waste contractor v. regular excavation guys) and disposal of excavated materials. I did work on road construction projects for the DOT, and the excavation in contaminated areas was done by the firm I worked for. Once we cleared the area, the road contractor could build the road.
     

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