The Three Trails project was just one in a series of coming projects to South KC. http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2009/06/15/focus2.html I'm honestly torn on what's the better option if KCK can really deliver a SSS faster. That's a big carrot, because CAB isn't going to get this club anywhere. At the same time, this decision has 25-30 year implications, so I hope it's the right one.
The mall is already gone. It took longer than normal because every single thing that could be recycled was. It wasnt as simple as tearing it down and throwing everything in one dump truck. Things had to be torn down so that they stayed in tact and sorted so they went to the appropriate places,
I won't disagree, but given the chance to start over again, would you go to Frisco? You need competent management, but all things being equal and only comparing the two proposed locations, I'd much rather have my stadium located in a central location close to the two other major league stadiums than out in a corner suburb associated mainly with Cabelas, Nebraska Furniture Mart, minor league baseball, and Nascar. That's not to knock those things or the Wyndotte itself. It's just not right for the Wizards.
Looks like its a done deal. The news is reporting that the Wizards have pulled out and Mayor Funk says they just can't compete with Kansas to keep the stadium in KCMO.......
The Kansas City Kansan uses BigSoccer as a source for their articles: http://www.kansascitykansan.com/gov...ineman-UG-club-working-on-stadium-development
What news source reported that? I doubt between the time Heinemann made his post late last night and today, that Three Trails is officially dead. I think it will be weeks before a final decision on that will be made. I could be wrong though.
Would Frisco be my first choice? No. My first choice would be to have it where Reunion Arena is currently being demolished. Similarly, I'd like to have a harem of buxom glamour models waiting on me hand and foot at home. But if all the choices above Frisco won't happen, then Frisco it is. That's where we were in 2002 when Frisco happened, and that's where we are today. It was never a choice of Frisco or someplace else, it was Frisco or oblivion.
It's about the same distance to either location for me, so I don't have a real concern in that regard, but it's not like Frisco. For my friends who live in Dallas proper, Frisco may as well be in Oklahoma. The Legends might not be as convenient for those in the SE quadrant of KC, but it's just a trip to KCK, which is not the case with Frisco. On a general note, I am relieved. When my wife mentioned she saw something on the news this morning my first thought was: St. Louis Wizards. Seriously, I thought this was OnGoal getting cold feet and pushing out the cost of stadium development to eventually sell the franchise off to another city. I'm excited that the team will remain in KC. I like the Legends well enough. There is already a lot to do out there with the retail and restaurants. While Three Trails may have been built up eventually, it would have taken far longer given all the changes in the economy since that plan was developed.
I have a complete lack of understanding why you are so sure that Three Trails is bound to fail. Because Bannister Mall failed? Take a look around at the indoor malls in the area. You'll see thriving strip malls surrounding the old, empty shells of the former indoor malls of glory. Look at the area around Metcalf South - despite the big, mostly empty mall there, you have the surrounding area doing quite well... At the same time that Metro North was slowly becoming obsolete you had developments being put in across the highway. Ward Parkway converted itself from a failing indoor mall to a thriving retail center. Let us not forget the utter failure of the Hypermart concept and its contribution to the failure of the area. On the other hand, traffic issues through the triangle have been fixed for the most part and the street gangs that many people perceive to roam the dark streets at night are largely more non-existent than has been rumored - which is to say, they don't exist. In the same respects, there are hundreds of thousands of people in the vicinity that would love to have a place to shop in Southeast KC. Up until at least before the demo of the mall there were still businesses hiding in the back of the strip behind the mall... the fact they could even consider operating in a situation where virtually nobody was aware of their existence demonstrates how much potential the area has. I don't believe that OnGoal or anyone has even come close to implying that the Trails development is doomed for failure... the issue has never been its viability. Of course, this won't prevent you from continually implying that it's as daft as building a castle on a swamp... but hopefully everyone else understands that the Trails plan is not a bad one, but may simply not fit logistically into OnGoal and the Wizard's needs.
I am going to scream if I have to hear another person in this thread say something to the affect that Legends already has a great share of retail and restaurants- to that I say "who the ******** cares" because ONGOAL doesn't own them or the land or the lease or anything but they would own the land and the leases at Three Trails. At the Legends The Wizards are just another tenant or so it seems, at Three Trails they are the owner and operator which makes them money- being an owner of a parcel of land with a huge new stadium is awesome but being the owner of a huge parcel of land with a great new stadium, new cerner building, new tournament fields, new retail, new hotels, is something entirely different so if this is all the better ONGOAL can do for now then I suppose we have to live with it but let's not forget what is being sacrificed here. Are we all suppose to just forget about Swope Park or the fact that most Kansas Citians think of sporting events not taking place in KCMO as being minor league?
KANSAS CITY KANSAN! I haven't seen that paper in almost 50 years - when my neighbor used to throw it! Glad to see it's still alive!
I just have no faith that Three Trails could've delivered the retail infrastructure to keep the team viable for 25-30 years. I have no faith they could do it for 10 years. I'm still kinda shocked The Plaza is still in existence sometimes.
I think the fact that the Plaza has completely out lasted the Suburban indoor mall craze- the run to suburban living- and the overall automobile stranglehold on KC only proves that some "collective wisdom" should be questioned.
That is a perfectly legitimate point to make when discussing Legends. The development is already established and has proven to be successful. I have never been to Legends and it not been very busy. I've been there in the middle of a weekday during the winter and had a hard time finding a parking spot. What does Swope Park have to do with this? How do you know most Kansas Citians think of sporting events taking place outside of KCMO as minor league? Have you taken a poll? When has a major league team done something like this for that discussion to ever come up? I have never heard anyone say that. If the stadium is as nice as OnGoal claims its going to be, I dont think that whether or not it is major league will even come into question.
Agreed. Not that I completely disagree with you, but owning that huge parcel of land would also mean that if it all goes kaput, OnGoal is on the hook for everything. They were probably weighing the risk associated with dealing with KCMO, TIFs and the economy. That kind of risk could have a huge upside, or a very massive downside. Had to be a factor, especially with feet being dragged all over the place.
While I feel that the location is not _as_ optimal (again, population density)... I do agree with the fact that a Legends stadium can possibly draw from Lawrence and KU - something that a Bannister stadium would have a harder time accomplishing (~2x the transit time). I'm not sure if I would depend on a strong Topeka draw, but I guess Topekans (?) might be more used to the drive and whatnot. The only reasons I strongly prefer Bannister above Legends (besides the proximity, which isn't _really_ that big of a deal) are the transportation access (always feel it's such a chore to get around Legends... and considering how they continue to look into more development, will probably only get worse) and the fact that it'll play 2nd/3rd fiddle (not to CAB but to potential new development) in the area whereas it would be 1st violin at Bannister. Having thousands of people drive by the proposed Three Trails development and seeing the bright shining beacon of the Wizards stadium would provide the team more prestige. In Legends I think it'll be accepted as 'just another stadium' and, as mentioned by some, possibly interpreted as minor league considering the other stadia is CAB. Oh, and I also cringe at the thought of Southeast KC revolting against the flight of the team which was made out to be the champion and savior of the Bannister Mall area. We/they already look at the Bannister Mall area and get depressed/upset.... we don't need to have people associate that continual unpleasantness with the team and organization. In terms of preference, I was also looking forward to a more European 'urban' or possibly 'neighborhood' style stadia... I don't think you could ever _truly_ pull off that type of feel in a Legends like atmosphere.
That's all a very good point, definitely something that hurts the overall money making ability, maybe they realized that they need the team to be profitable and are willing to give up a little of that extra money making ability from outside businesses. It wasn't long ago that there was talk about the Chiefs moving out to the Legends, even if it was no reallyserious yet.
Really, I was as happy as anyone when the Trails development was announced, and would have been there spending money all the way. I don't think the retail would inevitably have failed. I just think that it is an unknown at the Trails, a given at the Legends. OnGoal did not give up on the Trails, once the project stalled that was functionally the same thing as the project dying from OnGoal's perspective. The Funk and KCMO could have saved it if they were willing to go the extra mile but they didn't. Whether they should have or not, I don't know, I am not a KCMO voter so I don't get to decide that. Those of you who think the Trails needs to be resurrected should contact the Mayor and City Council and let them know. If you succeed, I'll be first in line at the Trails. I don't think Wyandotte is in this to serve as leverage against KCMO, and I don't think this would be front page of the KC Star if OnGoal thought there was any real chance of the Trails being done in an acceptable time frame.
Yeah, with the Trails location, KC refused to give cash to OnGoal upfront or back the bonds with the city's credit. Plus, there are usually strings attached with the Super TIF and state breaks that require progress in order to get the full money. So OnGoal would have had significantly more risk. With Legends, they get a sweetheart deal. Preexisting STAR bonds, plus all you have to do is build a stadium and Cerner's next expansion out there. It's a business decision. That doesn't make it a good location, but whatever... Not much that can be done. I agree that this never would have beern announced/leaked if the Trails wasn't dead.