Thanks for doing the actual research for me, Mike! Another thing to factor in to those considerations is that the 28.5 miles to Frisco is over uncompleted roads, where as the Legends and Bridgeview drives are on completed highways..
One thing also to consider is that not all land is for sale. Sure, there are quite a few areas around the metro that could house a SSS. But just because there is a plot of land somewhere doesn't mean that it's up for sale or even remotely affordable. Not to mention multiple zoning restrictions that we don't even know about. I agree. I understand the argument that Legends is far away for some (it's 15-20 minutes from me). But Banister would have been 35 minutes from me. Arrowhead is 25. If you hate Kansas. That's fine. If you hate Legends. That's fine. I guess I'm just surprised that "driving distance" is still an issue. Probably because I excepted the fact that I'll have to drive no matter where they put this thing. I just assumed most others had as well.
Let's face it, there is no one place in the KC metro that would make everyone happy. Bannister was probably the best option, but it's obvious that it will be several years before the Trails plan is economically viable again. There is NO market for new speculative commercial developments in this town, no one wants to buy muni bonds, and KCMO doesn't have money laying around that can be spent on the infrastructure necessary for the stadium built, while waiting for years for the market to catch. (IMO, It's entirely possible that large-scale commercial development is dead for the next decade. There are already a number of vacant big-box stores in more attractive locations than Bannister. Once retailers start expanding their operations again, they are going to be attracted to those locations first.) I hear and understand the complaints from those of you on the Southeast side of town. I've lived in the South OP/Olathe area most of my life, and I know how much of a pain it is to get to Arrowhead/Kauffman Stadiums, Worlds of Fun, or anywhere else north of the river. This sucks for you, but OnGoal needs to do something that will work, and they need to do it ASAP. This location is really the only place in town that fits the bill. The retail is working, and the infrastructure is in place. And the 'Dotte government is the only one organized and aggressive enough to see this to completion.
there is also the preception that the legends is far away...wasnt until halfway through the season that i thought of the legends as not too far away. that being said i don't like driving out there. the drive to bannister feels a lot shorter
Why would you use Downtown as the middle of the metro? I honestly think Three Trails has a larger population in a 5 mile radius than the Sprint Center and obviously many times larger than Legends does or ever will.
I wonder if the large scope is part of the reason we've been in limbo for years? Personally I only care about the stadium and the MLS component of this. If the fields are the only way the revenue of the club is sustainable, great, but I wonder what the trade-offs are in terms of land needed (location), perceptions in being tied so strongly to suburban youth soccer, and atmosphere. The fields and location of DSG and Frisco haven't really helped their stadiums even if they're making fistfuls of cash from the tournaments they run. It's probably the less risky option, but I can't see the ceiling being as high for the fanbase either. I also think their attendance issues are more FO related than location, but it's probably not just coincidence that Seattle, Portland, and DC have had more success with marketing their team as an adult entertainment option. Both Bannister and the Legends are suburban, so there's not much difference, though I'd prefer Bannister, and I'm first concerned about the club staying in town. I just wonder how much stronger of a push the Wizards could make in the sporting scene here with a stadium in the core of the city however fanciful it might be.
Don't get me wrong, I'll be at the Legends site, just as much as I'd be at the Bannister site. I'm happy that the Wizards are going forward with this.. I would just love for someone connected to the project to stand up and actually call out Tolbert for his interference. Without that, I believe that the project would have reached an inertial tipping point before the economic restructuring that has taken place.
Seriously? They are both "suburban"? how can the two locations be grouped together as being so similar in one sense then refuted as one being seriously dangerous while the other is in a field in the middle of no where.
Kansas City is so spread out that I don't see how Valley West is any more or less convenient than Three Trails for many people. I would certainly question the assumption that attendance would be more, or less, at one location than the other just based on location. And it is ridiculous to criticize OnGoal for the switch. They wanted to do it at Three Trails and expended lots of money and effort to try to get it there. If OnGoal could build it at Three Trails they would. The location didn't get switched on a whim; the retail side of Three Trails and the associated financing can't get done in this economy. The unspoken message here is that OnGoal can't continue to own the Wizards without the stadium being done, and it can't get done at Three Trails.
How is it minor league? Location doesnt make a stadium minor league. Also, how do you consider Legends desperate for development? They have a ton of stuff already. It's not like they havent been able to attract retailers and attractions. They arent desperate, they just have the sales revenue to cover the STAR Bonds. That area is thriving and money is rolling in so they know they can support it.
That's a big part of it. Legends isn't part of the KC fabric, and I think the Wizards will struggle to change that. You can post miles from Google Maps all you want, but that doesn't paint a complete picture of the problems with the location.
That is the preception, but I think part of that perception compared to Bannister is the lack of development currently around the area. I mean you drive to Bannister and there is housing, there's shopping, there'a lot of stuff on the way out there. You get past 635 on I-70 on the way out to Legends and it's curretly a lot less developed, giving the perception that it's further away.
I've never been to PHP, but I have been to Frisco. Even when they finish that road, getting to Frisco from most parts of the D/FW Metromess will require a bunch of crowded interstate time PLUS a chunk of time on something that, at best, resembles the parts of 71 Highway with traffic lights. Apart from maybe Lee's Summit, there aren't many places in KC that are more than 30-40 minutes away from the Legends. (Which is about how long it took to get from Olathe to the Sports Complex before they redid the Grandview Triangle, and that didn't stop people from going to Royals games back in the day.) D/FW is like Kansas City on every steriod that's ever been made, with higher population density. It's really not a fair comparison to make.
Wow. My parents happen to live "across the highway" from the Legends. I'll be sure to tell them and all of their neighbors living in $400,000 houses that the area they live in is dangerous.
I never said they're equal in distance from population centers or socioeconomic makeup. I prefer Bannister's location, but the Bannister area is essentially a suburb, not even in the KCMO school district, and considered far from fast growing areas of the city like NKC and West OP/Olathe. It's just less in a corner than the Legends. I also said nothing about Bannister being dangerous or the Legends being built on a greenfield so try not to put my posts together with others when quoting.
My parents live in the area as well. This is obviously a common misconception. Like the Bannister area was "cupcake land" or something.
You don't understand why a more central location that draws people from all 4 directions is more conveniet to the fan base as a whole than a location that is out on one edge of the metro area? This new location is going to alienate a lot of the Eastern metro fans. I'm one of those people, but I'll still be making the drive, not all of them will make that decision.
I think (maybe, Jason can correct me if I'm wrong) that he was saying that the perception of the Three Trails area as dangerous was a false perception. Not that the area around the Legends is legitimately dangerous.
You have to travel several miles away from Legends to get into what is considered the bad part of KCK. You have to go back near 635 for that.
That would make sense. I know that us folks from Wyandotte county are constantly defending that part of the area from others. We are probably quick to jump to "defensive mode" with these kinds of topics.
My problem with this new Legends thing is the obvious question of how does this make ONGoal stronger? We heard about how Three Trails was so important not only to SEKC but to the team's ability to grow a fan base and strengthen their financial standing. I personally envisioned that to mean that ONGoal was setting up for some important MLS changes in the future- increased payrolls, increased rosters, maybe even the removal of the salary cap in the distant future. Okay this new development does what? It creates a stadium for 2011? Does anyone here actually believe they are going to buy the land and build the new amazing stadium before March of 2011? I need some of these questions answered before I can get behind this right now.