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Discussion in 'Germany: National Teams' started by BorisG, Jul 5, 2017.
Select only 2
there is also Uth and Hahn.
although I don't think they will make the squad. There is also the Freiburg duo,
the reason I think they COULD be in consideration is Lars Stindl. The only reason that Low called up Stindl from what I've heard. Is because for awhile Low has been very very high on players who can make a difference in either CL and/or EL and that the league was not enough. Specifically in the knockout stages, this is something that Stindl has shown that he's highly capable of and in the end showed that again as he was a key player for the CC.
and Freiburg have qualified for the EL....
I think Kleindienst might start next season
Maybe not the beginning of the season but somewhere in between
I hate to say it, but Stindl may still be the odd man out between Gomez and Werner.
As long as Werner is brought to the wc I'll be happy. We have a lot of players who can play Stindls role. Müller in particular.
Or Goretzka is a sense
If we play 3421 in WC 2018 , there will be two AMs behind the striker
Mueller n Oezil behind Werner I'd assume.
But players like Reus, Draxler, Goretzka, Stindl, Sane, Brandt can all play those AMs role
Plus those players give us the flexibility to change systems.
Update on this topic as the season is now well underway. Werner now is by far the NT's first choice starter. Pretty much picking up where he left off last season. A top generational talent in every aspect.
Gomez is a question mark because of his health and form. He's been poor to begin the season and just picked up an ankle injury. Age is not on his side. The 2018 WC should be the last year and tournament that he is associated with the NT.
If Gomez falls out, then it might actually be pretty realistic to expect Jogi continuing to give Wagner the nominations. IMO, Wagner is an above average striker. He's not great, but at this point of his career has found a way to make himself effective. He played well against Northern Ireland. Which is easily the most meaningful game he's ever played with the NT so far. So I'll give him that.
I like Stindl because of his versatility, and seems to be effective at creating chances for his teammates.
Uth deserves a chance. He's the prime example for not giving up on a player too soon. Even starting off in Holland, he had to work his way up for a few years before breaking through with Heereveen and then transferred back to the BL. But he still needs to work hard to stand out and earn recognition to be called up.
I stand by the sentiment that Selke should be an option for the 2020 qualification campaign and onwards. He's shown the quality before when he was younger with Werder, and when he returns should have good future opportunities ahead with Hertha.
Volland was actually at one point an option a few years ago when he played better at Hoffenheim. But fell off the grid, with injuries and poor form at Leverkusen. He's definitely low on the priority list for Jogi. But this season he could be on the rebound.
Kruse is always going to be a Fussballgott but he's done with the NT. Between the poker playing, nutella eating, and general outlandish personal life I think he has burnt his bridges with Jogi.
Lasogga is not an option. He's wasted like 3-4 years in a row. He is playing decent right now at Leeds but they are a second division English club. They only slim to none chance he has is if Leeds makes promotion, and he has like a Jamie Vardy type scoring out of nowehere season next year in the EPL. But otherwsie, good for him to be playing some good football again.
Petersen and Niederlechner are just decent BL strikers. They don't do enough to stand out, and neither does Freiburg.
Kleindienst and Füllkrug are in the BL now, but neither have shown any impact yet. Don't think either will be international quality, but then again Wagner somehow made it here today. Similar uphill climb for other youngsters like Platte. But they can still work their way back up.
I think Ginczek's unfortunate career has been a big loss. Showed some good promise earlier, but fell off from repeated injuries. I guess he is this generation's Patrick Helmes.
In terms of players born 1997 and onwards, Teuchert is still the one player who has done the most. Steady play this season with Nürnberg, but I think he needs to start looking up towards the first division. Whether if FCN make promotion or if he transfers somewhere else.
After him, it's J.Eggestein, D.Otto, and Arp as the main youth standouts from each respective birth year. I won't go past year 2000 as that is too far along the projection line.
good analysis I agree with you.
it does seem to be Werner, Gomez, Stindl, and Wagner (in no particular order) that will be the ones in real contention for WC18. If the reports are true about Uth getting a call up in November that he could be the 5th person. I think everyone else will be post WC or not at all. Also Gomez confirmed that 2018 is his last. Still Gomez,Wagner and Stindl aren't going to last too long. I don't think any of them will last beyond EC2020 at the max.
I feel like a lot of these strikers mentioned might not be good enough for the seniors but they could get call up for the Olympics for example (overage players) like we did with Petersen in 2016.
concerning how Wagner made it, the answer is that he scored double digits goals in 2 consecutive seasons. One at Darmstadt where his goals saved the club from relegation and the other at Hoff. How many German forwards can say they did that? I think that's how some of the others less likely candidate could get chances. Aim for double digits for more than just 1 season and that's it.
I think Kruse was probably the only other striker to have done so. From 12/13 to 14/15 (3 seasons), he scored double digits with Freiburg and then Gladbach.
it's like you look at our forwards that actually made something in the NT. And look at other NT,you need players that are constantly on top. Scoring numerous double digits seasons in their careers is a sign of that.
players that can't manage anything beyond single digits aren't NT caliber for the highest level.
that's just a part of it you still need technique and skill. Which is why players like Petersen and Niederlechner for example will never be NT caliber.
The plan for Selke when he returns is to score at least 10-12 goals this season with Hertha. And then 12-15 next campaign.
oh I look forward to Selke's return. Every week I check to see when he''ll be ready. Seems to be next week's game.Shame he already missed 7 games in the season.
with Ibisevic being 33 and being suspended for that game, he's also scored 0 this season. It could be a chance for Selke to start and establish himself as 1st choice.
will be interesting to see Selke's effect in EL too. Just like Werner is playing is 1st ever CL. Selke is playing Europe for the 1st time. Could he help Hertha get out of their group?
Athletic Bilbao-1 pts
still open enough for Hertha to qualify.
It's still doable but Hertha basically cannot afford to lose anymore games. They must take advantage of home matches, and need to at least draw or do better on the road. Winning the next two to start will be a must, since they're now digging their way out of a hole. Hopefully their most recent match in the BL against Bayern was a sign of it being a wake up call.
Mario Gomez for WC 2018 shouldnt be a problem. He will be 32 during the tournament, not young of course but should be adequate to handle a backup role
I think post WC, Timo Werner n Mark Uth will be the leading frontman
They will be 22 n 27, can still play 3-4 years.
Other than Johannes Eggestein (Needs a lot of work on his physqiue if he wannna play CF in Bundesliga), David Otto and Fiete Arp........i think Janni Serra, Florian Kruger and Jesaja Herrmann will be good strikers in the Bundesliga. But again, they all might have to go through a "Mark Uth route" (maybe need to play abroad for a couple of seasons), or else they can hardly gain professional experience as teams generally prefer a single-striker-formation.
Janni Serra should be loaned out next season. i hope he can be loaned out for two seasons and develop steadily at one club. He wont get any chance behind so many strikers( Aubameyang, Philipp, Yarmolenko n Isak). He cant just wait on the bench
Jesaja Herrmann is going to leave Wolfsburg next summer (and he personally told me that he had some issue with Wolfsburg in July because they didnt let him leave as Bayern wanted him), so he will join a new club and hopefully gets loaned out after a season
weren't you high on Malone? what happened there?
I think Malone is good, but will most likely developed as a left winger
Malone will need to show a positive tournament. His less effective transition towards the U19 level for Augsburg has raised question marks.
Arp has pulled well ahead of him in terms of quality. Even Hottmann has been off to a better start than Malone. And J.Herrmann has actually scored in the one appearance he has made this season on the recent most match day. Jastzrembski now plays as an AM for Hertha U19.
Malone still has time on his side, but it's not unusual for certain players to get lost in the transition between U17 to U19 and so on.
Among the '99 age group, other players like Wintzheimer, Nieland, Krüger and Otto need to be tested on the 2BL level or somewhere else next season to see how and if they can progress forward. Perhaps on a loan move if they don't get an opening with their clubs. Müsel seems to be beginning to get some chances at Kaiserslautern. Vujinovic seems to be falling off.
In the '98s, Daferner looks to be playing better than Serra since returning from injury. I think Utku Sen is a wildcard but Holstein Kiel right now have several guys like Ducksch and Seydel ahead of him. Warschewski might be a later bloomer, but he needs to work his way up.
I don't consider them to be international calibre, but I think guys like Marvin Ducksch and Lucas Höler can still forge a career as at least middle-tier BL strikers during their mid-20's. Given that they make the right decisions and have some good fortune on their side. Samed Yesil is a tougher prediction. Good to hear he's finally healthy and is off to a somewhat decent start of the season with Panionios. But he's in the Greek league and needs to make up for lost time fast and earn more recognition to be relevant again. The next 2 years for him are make or break for him.
I think in general, there is progress being made on the striker front. Especially compared to the earlier period where guys like Manuel Fischer, Sukuta-Pasu, and Mlapa were flopping. IMO, the newer generation begins at about the '95 age group. With Selke and Werner leading the example of this progress in terms of accomplishments they've done so far. After them, there are more options in each later group. Not everyone will make it, but overall there is a better outlook towards the future.
Mark Uth, call him up Jogi
Uth has been quite consistent this season.....Jogi will have a tough time to select the last 23
Yeah, but he's too cool for Jogi...
Kruse in his Gladbach days was a really good player to watch. It's a shame that he went to Wolfsburg and his form dipped. That part of his resume remains a major black hole.
His tipping point with Jogi was the Nutella gate and the poker incidents though.