I curious to see how much land everyone thinks a MLS team needs to build a stadium on. The guys over at the Quakes forum think a 13 acre parcel of land is big enough. However, I think its way too small. In fact I figured that a MLS team needed at least 20 acres to build a stadium and parking (at least). Let alone retail and youth fields. Here is a breakdown of several other SSS projects in MLS (thanks to Dill0n): - Pizza Hut Park (FC Dallas): 117 acre master development (including 22,000 seat stadium and 17 fields) - Home Depot Center (LA Galaxy): 125 acre development (including 27,000 seat stadium and facilities for multiple sports) - Toyota Park (Chicago Fire): approx 100 acre development (including 20,000 seat stadium, expandable to 30,000) - Red Bull Park (RBNY): approx 87 acre development (including 25,000 seat stadium) - Poplar Point (DC United): 110 acre mixed-used development (including 25,000 seat stadium) -Commerce City: 360 acres, largest soccer complex in the world (Including 18,000 seat stadium and 24 fields) - Columbus Crew Stadium: 10 acre plaza along with 22,500 seat stadium and 60 acres for parking. Maybes - Rowan West Project (Philadelphia/New Jersey): 280 acre mixed-use development (including stadium) Anyone have any other opinion/factoids to share?
I was at the Crew-Revs game a few weeks ago. The stadium footprint may indeed be 1.6 acres, but that seems a little low. The parking around the stadium is just a big parcel of land which isn't paved. IMO, you don't need youth fields to have a successful situation provided the trade-off is a more desirable location.
But the youth participation seems to be key for every other SSS. BTW I have updated the Crew Stadium info for data I got from the Crew themselves. 10 acres for the actual stadium and about 50 acres of dirt parking, so grand total for this site, even without youth fields, is 60 acres.
thanks for giving me credit on this, SP. the 1.6 was the only acreage number i could find for the crew stadium, and i think it only applies to a paved areas outside the stadium itself (the "plaza"). obviously this doesn't take into account the size of the stadium, parking, nor any supplementary spaces/buildings. but further research has resulted in a 15 ACRE SITE (which apparently is incorrect according to SP's info, whoops). let's do the math, shall we? 1 acre = 43,560 SF 1 parking space (@ 9' x 18') = 162 SF so, 1 acre can roughly hold 268 parking spaces, not taking into account drive aisles (24' wide) and additional manuevering areas/clearances. if a stadium has 20,000 seats (for example), and for arguments sake we'll say on average 4 people/car, that's about 5,000 vehicles that need to be accomodated. right there we're over 18 acres, and that's just for parking. yikes. a soccer field ranges from 330'-360' in length, by 210'-240' wide ... 1.6 to 2 acres, respectively. multiply that by the number of fields in the complex. can we reasonably double the size of this to include the actual stadium instelf? start adding in exterior plaza areas, supplemental retail/commercial spaces, vehicular and pedestrian circulation, and the size keeps increasing. [none of these numbers are based upon actual code requirements, i'm just pulling details from my own professional experience]
No respect I tell ya... Commerce City: 360 acres, largest soccer complex in the world (Including 18,000 seat stadium and 24 fields) http://www.coloradorapids.com/News/newsdetails.asp?ID=1398
I think the 10 acres for Crew is for the stadium only and not any (except VIP) parking. The paved parking could be the extra 5 acres. As for Commerce City, I'll add that to the original post. Thanks. So far, does anyone think the Quakes can do it on 13 acres?
I suspect the 13 acres is referring to the downtown (South Diridon) site. It's important to keep in mind that that site is just south of HP Arena, where the Sharks play. Because of that, there's plenty of parking in the neighborhood. At this point, this is all conjecture. There has been no specific proposal from Lew Wolff and company regarding any site. But if you want more input from San Jose-based fans, go to this thread: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=409339
That depends on how much they will value parking fees into their business plan. It also depends on the public transportation situation. Supposedly, San Francisco has a first rate system that isn't over a billion dollars in debt like the ones in most big cities. I have no idea whether or not that is the case throughout the bay area. Any idea the size of the parcel of land that Toronto's stadium is on? They seem to be sharing parking with the arena right next door so the footprint of the stadium might give you some idea if 13 acres is enough.
160,000 feet is 3.67 acres. That seems pretty tight. If the site is square, that's 400x400 feet, and the field itself is going to be at least 330 feet long. If it's more rectangular, it could be 500x320 feet. They're getting it done, so I'll take your word for it. 13.9 acres is definitely big enough for a stadium itself. If you take a 116x75 yard field, and extend 75 yards around in all 4 directions, you have 12.37 acres. I don't know that the perimeter of any MLS-sized stadium extends 75 yards beyond the field.
The site we were discussing in the other is right next to (on the same block) as Diridon Station, San Jose's public transportation hub. It is served by Caltrain, the commuter rail line connecting to San Francisco, Amtrak Capitol Corridor which connects to Oakland and Sacramento, the local Santa Clara County light rail system, and numerous bus routes. The main Bay Area transit system, BART, does not go to San Jose, though there is an express bus route between the nearest station (at least 15 miles away) and Diridon Station. It is not a site that would be conducive to the team raking in the parking cash. The parking would be similar to what it is for Sharks games, one block away. The Arena has a lot, and they also rely on plenty of nearby downtown lots and garages that are used during workdays by office workers. Parking could get scarce if both the Arena and the hypothetical stadium had an event at the same time, so scheduling could be an issue.
but that's 160,000 SF for the actual stadium building, discounting any surrounding area. and i'm pretty confident it's a gross square footage, not just building footprint, meaning it includes circulation, support spaces (mechanical, administrative, etc) restrooms, concessions, etc.. i'm unsure of what the project site's size is. let's say the field is 86,000 SF +/- ... that leaves 74,000 SF for everything else.
Did you forget that Kansas City is much closer to a stadium than Rowan? And they have a team there already? You forgot?
Since you're adding nothing to this dscussion in the way of a KC stadium size I just thought I'd correct you. Both stadiums are just drawings and talk at the moment. FYI:your stadium's funding is still subject to at lease one public vote. Rowan's stadium is not subject to a vote and is going foward team or not. A stadium without a team is a bit better than a team without a stadium. (cough, San Jose, cough)
I wanted to add KC, but I couldn't find (quickly) all the specs. If you post them I will add them to original post, just like JasonMa did for Colorado's info. Thanks.
About 300 acres, from a link in post #4 on this thread: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=398850
I can't edit the first post anymore. so heres this update: Here is a breakdown of several other SSS projects in MLS (thanks to Dill0n): - Pizza Hut Park (FC Dallas): 117 acre master development (including 22,000 seat stadium and 17 fields) - Home Depot Center (LA Galaxy): 125 acre development (including 27,000 seat stadium and facilities for multiple sports) - Toyota Park (Chicago Fire): approx 100 acre development (including 20,000 seat stadium, expandable to 30,000) - Red Bull Park (RBNY): approx 87 acre development (including 25,000 seat stadium) - Poplar Point (DC United): 110 acre mixed-used development (including 25,000 seat stadium) -Commerce City (Rapids): 360 acres, largest soccer complex in the world (Including 18,000 seat stadium and 24 fields) - Columbus Crew Stadium: 10 acre plaza along with 22,500 seat stadium and 60 acres for parking. Maybes -Overland Park (KC Wizards): 300 acres; 24 youth soccer fields, retail, a hotel & stadium -Rowan West Project (Philadelphia/New Jersey): 280 acre mixed-use development (including stadium) -San Jose (Quakes): 13 acres, stadium only, no retail or parking or youth fields.
Since you're really adding nothing to this discussion in the way of meaningful input I thought I would correct you. No where in that article, or any other fact based article, does it say the stadium is subject to a public vote. Actually, it does say:
At this point the Overland Park stadium is more likely than the Rowan stadium. Of course if Nov. 7 fails then that might all change. But at least its on the ballot. Rowan and their investor are still in the talking stages with the state. Or not.
Youth fields seem to be the sugar helping down the "medicine" for the voters. It's not a necessity per se... and I'm not totally convinced the sites as locations are good long-term solutions. The fans of our sport are more transit-conscious than most. However, in order to get the prime locations, we have to prove ourselves in the hinterlands.
Certainly. All that is needed is land for the stadium itself. There is already adequate parking nearby and the site is right next to the mass transit hub for the city. (And fans coming up from LA could take the train and disembark literally a stone's throw from the stadium.) Youth fields and the team training site would be 4 miles to the south at the fairgrounds.