Should AFC and OFC merge?

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Every Four Years, Sep 12, 2015.

  1. NaBUru38

    NaBUru38 Member+

    Mar 8, 2016
    Las Canteras, Uruguay
    Club:
    Club Nacional de Football
    Or easier, the OFC could become a subregion of the AFC.
     
    Metropolitan repped this.
  2. EPJr

    EPJr Member+

    Los Angeles FC
    United States
    Mar 21, 2009
    Richmond VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    politically
    not so easy to get rid of a whole confederation
     
  3. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Probably not necessary....you could just have the OFC winner (i.e. New Zealand) take one of the twelve spots in the final round of AFC qualifying. Or even simpler, automatically be the playoff opponent of the AFC #5.
     
  4. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    That's how it was suposed to be, but as Concacaf chickened-out having to confront Conmebol all the time, they asked FIFA to make that draw thing between all playoff teams , so they get to confront teams diferent to Conmebol every once and again, instead.
     
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  5. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What's your source for CONCACAF telling FIFA how they wanted the interconfederational playoffs to be drawn? The first time CONCACAF got 3.5 spots, Trinidad and Tobago beat Bahrain, so it's not like CONCACAF was paired against CONMEBOL the first time. Why should CONCACAF have to face CONMEBOL just because AFC and OFC are geographically close? I think the random draw is fair. The two CONCACAF teams who qualified from playoffs combined to get 8 points (1 1/3 per game) and a -1 goal differential from 6 Group Stage games, with 7 of the points from Mexico in 2014, although it's not like Trinidad and Tobago had a historically bad 2006 either. I would think CONMEBOL would prefer a random draw with a chance at facing New Zealand than to always face CONCACAF.
     
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  6. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    #31 Rickdog, Oct 7, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
    I don't have a reliable source for that, as anything coming from FIFA, specially in those years was usually covered with a big cloud of secrecy, and all it was known from it, comes from common popular knowledge.

    But fact is, that everytime at Concacaf they are proposed to do things together with Conmebol (not by Conmebol btw, but by FIFA itself), they chicken out from it and sort out all type of excuses to not do anything at all.

    Exactly. That's your answer.

    Besides, you never see any type of tournaments taking place where teams from Concacaf, play regularly with teams of OFC or AFC. But at the same time, there are plenty of them between teams from OFC with AFC (you think Australia switched to AFC from nothing ?; fact is that since long before they did so, they were already taking part in tournaments from the ASEAN zone which is part of AFC), and at the same time many of them between Concacaf and Conmebol (rememeber the Centenario Cup or with invited teams from the other confed for both Copa America and the Gold cup)

    I don't share "your" view.

    If there are half spots for Conmebol and Concacaf, the most logical thing is that always they must confront each other, as deep down, we belong to the same american continent, where we share many common things among us. (pretty much the same as for many OFC members with some AFC members).

    Oh yes, it would be lots more easier to have to face OFC or AFC, as they are lots weaker than Concacaf. But this is not about getting an easier pathway through, but to have certain degree of logic, culturally, geographically and logistically speaking. Even if it may be more dificult, it is what it is.
    .
    .
    In any case, we will not have to give much concern to half spots in the near future, as with the 48 team WC joke, there will not be any more half spots for anyone.
     
  7. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it would be ridiculous for FIFA to tell CONCACAF that if CONCACAF teams play in the Copa America then CONCACAF and CONMEBOL will always meet in the playoff. The two things should not be related. None of CONCACAF, AFC, and OFC would want to face CONMEBOL, so CONCACAF shouldn't be criticized as being more "chicken" than AFC or OFC. You disagree with me, but I think the relationship between any two confederations should be equal. In addition to making qualifying more difficult, considering CONCACAF and CONMEBOL have won every playoff not against the other one for the last three World Cups, wouldn't making CONCACAF and CONMEBOL face each other go against having the best teams qualify?
     
  8. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    (Over the bolded part)

    Sure, but if from the begining it was about getting the best teams in the WC, Concacaf should not have so many guaranteed spots at all (same as for AFC and CAF, btw). And most of them (if not all) would be from either Uefa and Conmebol. As I said at my previous post, this is not about having an easier path through, but what is more logical, geographical, cultural and logistically speaking.

    What really makes no sense is to have to cross the whole planet within a one week time frame just to play a couple of matches to decide whom goes through and whom doesn't. It's not good for the fans, for the players and probably also not good for football.
     
  9. Every Four Years

    May 16, 2015
    Miramar, Florida
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    Meh. The playoffs are four matches out of the hundreds played in qualifiers. It's not too much to ask teams to take two long-distance flights twice in a two-year qualification campaign. As for what's "good for football", having grossly disparate playoffs like Jordan playing New Zealand and Mexico playing Uruguay doesn't strike me as being particularly "good for football". It seems you don't much like CONCACAF, and I wouldn't claim they're exactly world-beaters either, but it's hard to fault them for "chickening out" just because they want their playoff teams to be on a level playing field with those from AFC and OFC. All other World Cup qualifying matches are determined by seeded draws. If CONCACAF did force FIFA's hand, it appears they didn't even ask for a seeded draw after the conclusion of the October qualifiers (the fairest method IMO), just a random draw before the beginning of the qualification cycle. It's hard to see anything unreasonable there.
     
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  10. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    When I'm talking about football here, I'm refering myself how playing the game might be affected when players don't get enough rest after those long trips.

    Jet lag, is not something invented over nothing, as it is a proven thing that athletes or high performance sportsmen can see their performance highly affected by it. And to the issue as of these particular playoffs, it is not as if they are both played with lots of weeks in between both matches, giving plenty recovery time. Both matches must be played within only a one week time frame, one after the other. And to add more problems to those players, lots of them before making such a long trip to where they are going to be played, must first already take a long trip a few days ahead, going from the country where they usually play at club level, to the country where the team prepares itself for the matches. To make the story short, it is a lot of air travel, highly stressful and demanding, with very low recovery and rest time, not good for the practice of high level competition, and also enhances possibilities of appearance of diverse injuries to players.

    If you really love the game, you'd always expect to have the players play up to their full potential. And specially when you have to decide whom will take part in a future WC to take place.
    .
    .

    About what I believe on respect to Concacaf, that's not important here, as my opinion is personal and only mine. But if you are still concerned about it, to be honest I think they are full of crap with very few exceptions, which at the end doesn't mean that I'm right or that I'm wrong. You, can have your own opinion, and I don't pretend to change it.
     
  11. Every Four Years

    May 16, 2015
    Miramar, Florida
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    I get your points about jet lag. I still think the principle of trying to get better, more competitive teams at the WC justifies the long-distance travel for the playoffs, but, okay, that's just my opinion.

    As for our opinions on CONCACAF, I don't really hugely disagree that CONCACAF is mostly a poor confederation. I simply believe that they are undoubtedly better than AFC and OFC, as evidenced by recent World Cup performances. Yeah, they're not great, but it's harsh to suggest they're on average at the level of the dross that are AFC and OFC. That is all.

    Anyway, I certainly didn't intend to start a flame war over this. It seems we have one major disagreement and some minor ones. I understand some of your points, and hopefully you understand some of mine.
     
    Rickdog repped this.
  12. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree. I wouldn't want a group stage where a CONCACAF team had to play three games in AFC or OFC countries, but I don't think one is too many. Manchester United played on consecutive weekends with a Champions League game in Moscow in between. Jet lag exists, but were there any playoffs with surprise outcomes than can be attributed to jet lag? The players would rather have a lot of travel in a week and qualify than not have much travel and not qualify. If you look at the FIFA Rankings as of the start of the playoffs for World Cups 2006, 2010, and 2014, Uruguay was the top team every team and the CONCACAF team was second every time. Even if you disagree with the FIFA Rankings, I think people would agree that Mexico was better than Jordan and New Zealand in the four years before the playoffs in 2013 and Costa Rica was better than Bahrain and New Zealand in the four years before the playoffs in 2009 After almost qualifying for World Cup 1990, Trinidad and Tobago had to wait 16 years to debut, and they would still be waiting if they had to play Uruguay instead of Bahrain in the playoffs in 2005.
     
  13. tudobem62014

    tudobem62014 Member+

    Feb 26, 2014
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Jet lag? Wait until we have an intergalactic World Cup! ;)
     
  14. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member+

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    There you go.

    I believe OFC should operate in a similar way as CFU does for the Caribbeans: it can keep its own regional cup, while still being able to participate to the AFC Asian Cup. And OFC could keep a specific route to World Cup qualifications untill joining the Asian final round.

    I do believe a lot in a system organized around subregions. I would support a merger between Concacaf and Conmebol as well, but in which CFU and UNCAF could still prevail.

    Larger confederations could only make them stronger and subdivisions would vastly limit travel distance issues in keeping preliminary rounds more local. 4 large confederations could as well make 4 large regional cups; Copa América, African Nations Cup, AFC Asian Cup and Euro.
     
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  15. dinamo_zagreb

    dinamo_zagreb Member+

    Jun 27, 2010
    San Jose, CA / Zagreb, Croatia
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    I'd really love to see something like that, but I don't see it happening. Too much interests from OFC executives. Too many buts, too few seats - if they lose confederation status and join AFC. They are fine with this, they don't care about football development, only for their own pocket$ while FIFA also seem not to be very interested.

    Sad situation, especially for New Zealand. I still hope to see some changes in format that would give them a spot in last stage of Asian quals - those for 2022, that should be the last exciting quals.
     
    NaBUru38 repped this.
  16. tudobem62014

    tudobem62014 Member+

    Feb 26, 2014
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    #41 tudobem62014, Nov 23, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
    64 team World Cup!

    34 days

    26 UEFA teams
    7 CONCACAF
    9 CONMEBOL
    2 OFC
    9 AFC
    10 CAF
    Host

    Round of 32 would be so epic... lots of upsets or blow outs!

    8 grueling games ... over 34 days... damn... u win this u really deserve to be champion of the world!

    Need China and India to get into the World Cup for it feel to like a real World Cup... largest populations on earth must be represented!

    Originally:
    32:
    13 uefa
    5 caf
    4.5 conmebol
    4.5 AFC
    3.5 concacaf
    .5 oceanic
    Host
     
  17. almango

    almango Member+

    Sydney FC
    Australia
    Nov 29, 2004
    Bulli, Australia
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    I think you've summed it up, and its why we tried for years to get out of OFC. When OFC was granted Confederation status there was only one vote against it in FIFA congress, ours.
     
  18. persianfootball

    persianfootball Member+

    Aug 5, 2004
    outside your realm
    [​IMG]
     
  19. guri

    guri Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    Why can't you leave OFC? Australia did.
    Come to Conmebol. We'll welcome you with open arms. It's closer than many places in Asia(e.g. the Middle East) and I'll bet you'd improve faster with us than with them.
     
  20. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    He is Australian ffs. :D
     
  21. guri

    guri Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    Oh... Oops
    Well, the offer still stands... Come to Conmebol... and bring your friends :)
     
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  22. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This I like, east and south east Asia split from AFC and they merge with OFC would be the best IMO.
     
  23. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Geography is very important, that is why we have geographical confederations.

    AFC vs. OFC and Conmebol vs Concacaf seem logical to me, unfair but logistically logical.

    Now I prefer multiple intra continental playoffs for 10 to 12 fifa spots, but that is not going to happen.

    Yes, with expansion to 48, OFC would be crazy to merge.
     
  24. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1 your source is that you pulled it out of your ass.

    2. No way Conmebol would agree to merge with concacaf and have the CFU run the new confederations, so both parties would fight that idea.

    3. I do agree, Conmebol vs. Concacaf for a playoff spot seems very logical, but I guess irrelevant after 2022.
    .
     
  25. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    My sources come from reality.

    I may probably exagerate them by saying that Concacaf has always chickened out, but truth is that each time someone mentions about this possibility, the ones whom don't want to continue speaking about the issue, has been those whom represent Concacaf.

    This whole issue concerning both american Confeds isn't something new, as it has been talked about since the awarding of the WC to Mexico in 1986, in substitution of Colombia, whom was originally chosen to be host of that WC. Almost since they first started talking about that possibility, the only Concacaf country which has agreed to take that notion in consideration, has been Mexico, reasons why since then, as a first step towards that integration, they've started taking part in some of Conmebol's most prestigious tournaments such as Copa America (at NT level), Copa Libertadores and Copa Sudamericana (at club level).

    Even Infantino himself, pretty recently when FIFA still hadn't decided if to expand the WC to 48 teams, suggested the possibility of merging both american confeds into one WC qualifier process, that includes the teams of both confeds. To which, a few days later, Montagliani (current Concacaf president), said there is no way in taking that idea into any consideration.

    https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2...conmebol-world-cup-qualifying-merge-infantino

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jan/11/world-cup-48-teams-football-concacaf-conmebol
     

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