I don't know how you're defining "dual." One half of American citizens have a foreign born grandparent. That makes them "duals", right? And, I bet our domestic soccer pool skews heavily to that half of the populace. Our pool will always have a ton of players that are, by FIFA standards, duals. As our development gets better (and it is improving by leaps and bounds), more nations are going to be coveting our young players. This is an issue that will become more prominent as our development continues to improve. To me, for Dest, I'd call him into the Nations League squad. If he's not ready to make a decision, we know where he stands. He can decline the call up. No big deal. As for this tainting him, I don't buy it. Miazga made noise that if he didn't get a call up soon, he was going to accept a call up for another nation (I forget which). And, no one is questioning his loyalty. For me, for the Nations League, I'd call up as many of the U-20's as is feasible. They can accept the call or turn it down. No pressure. And, it gives us an idea of how much work to put into their development. And, count me in the "let's try Dest further upfield" crowd. Hell, we should play a match with Arriola at LB and Dest at LW, imo.
I don't think all nations give out passports to anyone who has a grandparent born in that nation. Isn't passport of such a nation a requirement for FIFA?
Re: Dest...Absolutely agree. I'd rather see him at flank mid. He would immediately be our second best flank attacker behind Pulisic. He would be a terror playing on the opposite side of Pulisic...in GB's system... those big weak side switches into space to iso defenders...provides some balance to our attack.
My understanding is that to be eligible to represent a country, FIFA requires that you have a grandparent born there. Don't know where the passport fits in, but it's not a FIFA requirement.
All nations have their own citizenship/passport requirements. No need to split hairs about all the individual processes out there. I think the overall point is that in a nation with so many people living as first or second generation immigrants, most all coming from countries with much more of a dedication to soccer, the odds that our national team will be filled with players who have arrived just a generation or two ago is inevitable and expected.
FIFA only cares that you have citizenship and when you aquired it. It doesn't matter how you get it - every country has their own laws about that. They don't have any requirement about grandparents.
A lot of countries in Europe grant you citizenship if you have a grandparent from there. In Europe, descendancy (jus sanguinis) is the main way to obtain citizenship. In the Americas it is by birthplace (jus solis). FIFA puts some limits on who is allowed to represent their country of citizenship. Basically, country of birth of country where your grandparents were born. So, yeah, foreign born grandparent often means passport.
Wow. Just wrong in many ways. The Grandparent thing is not a requirement, it's an option. Read this: https://www.natlawreview.com/articl...ountry-fifa-s-national-team-eligibility-rules And, here you go: https://www.tycsports.com/superliga...aron-de-la-seleccion-de-croacia-20190903.html
Thanks for posting this. It really clears things up for me.... My main takeaway?... The rules flat out blow. The grandparent rule is flat out ridiculous. A full generation removed from the country in question and you can still play for them? You don't have to live a single day in that country and neither did your parents? Just dumb. I also think the residency rule is lame. Two years? Almost every football contract is longer than that. You play two years in the EPL and you can play for England? Am I reading that right? IMO, all of it should be based on residency.... and it should be something like 10 years with an eye towards that player officially wanting to be a citizen of said country.
You're reading it wrong. You have to have citizenship and meet one of those requirements. And thanks @RalleeMonkey for correcting me.
Sure. Just want to point out FIFA still doesn't care how you get citizenship, but obviously you are required to have it (I think sometimes when posters say passport they mean citizenship). Just that you have it and (thanks to your link) meet one of the other criteria.
FIFA has no grandparent requirement. The first FIFA requirement is citizenship which is represented by holding a valid passport. At all FIFA competitive matches players are required to present a valid passport of the nationality that they are representing. Altidore/Edu/AJ/Rossi/... grandparents were not born in the US. FIFA does use the grandparent rule especially in the area of dual nationals to determine if a player was eligible to represent multiple association at the youth level. Many countries allow granting citizenship to grandchildren of citizens so FIFA essentially says that you were eligible for citizenship (even if you did not formally request it). A concrete example; If you are born in the US and you had grandparents from Italy and Latvia then FIFA considers you a "dual' national and are eligible to represent the US, Italy, and Latvia. To represent any of those 3 nationalities, procedurally you must be a citizen which for FIFA purposes requires producing a valid passport.
Not really, it depends on if their grandparents' country recognizes citizenship through a grandparent. Some, like this one, do not.
And it doesn't always work in reverse. For example, I was born in the US, with 2 German grandparents, an English grandparent, and a Russian (technically Ukrainian now) grandparent. So I always joke, talent aside, I could play for the US, Germany, England, or Russia/Ukraine. But I actually couldn't play for Germany, because they recognize birth citizenship, like the US. Which explains their players of Polish and Turkestan ancestry, who were born in Germany.
This is where FIFA is smart by basically saying as a starting point if you have a valid passport then you have citizenship. Don't give up on playing for Germany, Lukas Podolski who was born in Poland, got citizenship through his paternal grandparents. Of course there were complexities involved based on "right of return".
Interesting. Thanks for the links. These articles offer two different takes on the grandparent thing. Case A: grandparent-related eligibility for certain nationalities which cover multiple FIFA member associations (e.g. British passport -- four home nations: Northern Ireland, England, Scotland, Wales). Case B: some nations, such as Croatia and Ireland, that allow for a grandparent's nationality to make someone eligible for a passport.
What do you think the % of countries that will grant citizenship based upon a grandparent is? And, what do you think the % of countries grant grandparent citizenship is for countries which guys in our player pool might have a grandparent? We're going to have a *ton* of guys in our pool who are duel eligible. Get used to it.
Well this is what you wrote: In 2015 FIFA mandated passports before all WCQ. Previously passports were one of several identifying documents accepted. https://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-wo...require-passports-before-world-cup-qualifiers
Article about the feeling Dest has about the USA vs Orange: https://www.fcupdate.nl/voetbalnieuws/356371/dest-voelt-zich-meer-gewild-door-verenigde-staten/ use google translate
Wonder if the Orange made him feel more “wanted” if he’d be leaning in that direction. From everything he’s said it sounds like he may skip this next international window.
The big bad Oranj seem mighty hot and bothered, putting paid the Dutch opining in this thread. The KNVB will meet Sergiño Dest in the very short term. The subject of discussion is of course his future as an international: will he remain a player of the United States or will the right back still choose Orange? https://www.vi.nl/nieuws/knvb-met-dest-om-tafel-over-toekomst-als-international
Part 2: Even voor de 2-0 van Álvarez is de timing, riching en snelheid van Dest uitstekend als David Neres de bal op de rechtsbuitenpositie tegen de zijlijn aan ontvangt. De Ajax-spitsen en middenvelders blijven in de as en er ontstaat ruimte om op te komen tussen de centrale verdedigers en de linksback van Lille. Dest pakt deze ruimte en daardoor wordt het veel makkelijker voor Neres om naar binnen te dribbelen. Hij steekt uiteindelijk de bal op Álvarez, die onberispelijk de 2-0 binnenschiet. Just before the 2-0 by Álvarez, the timing, direction and speed of Dest were excellent when David Neres received the ball on the right wing spot at the sideline. The Ajax strikers and midfielders stay in the axis and space emerges to push up between the central defenders and the left back of Lille. Dest takes this space and as a result that makes it much easier for Neres to dribble to the inside. He in the end puts the ball through on Álvarez, who impeccably scored the 2-0. Screenshot 2: Neres heeft de bal rechtsonder in bezit; Dest trekt de ruimte in tussen de back van Lille en de centrale verdediger. Een middenvelder is genoodzaakt mee te gaan. De directe tegenstander van Neres weet dat er achter zijn rug gekruist wordt en zal de neiging hebben om de passlijn naar Dest richting achterlijn dicht te zetten. De loopactie van Dest maakt de weg voor Neres naar binnen makkelijker. Uiteindelijk steekt Neres de bal op op Álvarez. Screenshot 2: Neres has the ball in possession at the bottom right; Dest moves into the space between the Lille back and the central defender. A midfielder is forced to go with him. The direct opponent of Neres knows that crossing moves behind his back are taking place and will have the tendency to close the pass lane to Dest in the back line direction. The moving action by Dest makes the path inwards for Neres easier. In the end Neres puts the ball through on Álvarez. Bij vlagen oogde het Ajax-spel in balbezit aan de kant van Dest nonchalant. Ballen die te kort werden gegeven bij een dikke voorsprong, of op iemand met een tegenstander in de rug, leidden zichtbaar tot irritatie bij trainer Erik ten Hag. Mogelijk dat Ziyech daardoor zelfs geblesseerd uitviel omdat hij een tik kreeg door een ‘ziekenhuisbal’ van Dest. Het zijn zaken waar de hoofdtrainer na afloop ook op wees. At times the Ajax play in possession on Dest’s side looked careless. Balls that were passed too short when having a big lead, or towards someone with an opponent in their back, were visibly irritating coach Erik ten Hag. It is even possible that Ziyech even dropped out injured because he got a knock as a result of an "injury causing ball" from Dest. These are matters that the head coach pointed at too afterwards. Het defensieve spel Verdedigend zijn de eerder genoemde rechtsbacks alle drie kwetsbaar. Of dat aan de instructies ligt die ze meekrijgen, of dat het trio zich uit eigen initiatief niet optimaal positioneert, is van buitenaf lastig te beoordelen. Feit is wel dat ze veel overeenkomsten hebben in het verdedigend positie kiezen. Dat zou kunnen betekenen dat de staf er mee aan de slag zou moeten gaan. Het levert immers regelmatig gevaar op. The defensive game Defensively, the aforementioned right backs all are vulnerable. Whether this is due to the instructions they receive, or whether the trio on their own initiative do not position themselves optimally, is difficult to assess from the outside. The fact remains they have many similarities in making choices about defensive positions. That could mean that the staff must/has to take action on it. After all, it surely creates danger on a regular basis. Eén van de zaken die al vaker belicht is in analyses van Ajax, is het doordekken op de man met de bal en soms ook op tegenstanders zonder bal, met als doel te voorkomen dat ze hem krijgen. Gaat het goed, dan is het vaak prima ingestapt. Het levert regelmatig gevaar op. Dat kan te maken hebben met de wens om de bal snel te veroveren, maar het blijft een verbeterpunt. Ook Dest is eager om de bal te veroveren en hij is vaak georiënteerd op zijn dichtstbijzijnde tegenstander, maar geeft daardoor ook regelmatig ruimte in zijn rug weg. Kort voor rust ontstond daardoor ook een kans voor Lille. One of the issues that has been highlighted often before in analyzes of Ajax pushing up to cover the man with the ball and sometimes also on opponents without the ball, aimed at preventing them receiving it. If it goes well, then the step in move was done well. It regularly creates a dangerous situation. That could be because of the desire to capture the ball quickly, but it remains a point for improvement. Dest too is eager to capture the ball and he is often oriented towards his closest opponent, but as a result regularly gives away space in his back. Shortly before half-time this did create an opportunity for Lille.