Seleção 2014-15: Dunga II Begins -- Post Cup, Pre Qualifiers [R]

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by Guigs, Jul 9, 2014.

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Who would be the ideal choice as new Seleção manager?

Poll closed Aug 13, 2014.
  1. Felipão

    9.1%
  2. Muricy

    6.1%
  3. Tite

    18.2%
  4. Luxemburgo

    9.1%
  5. Guardiola

    24.2%
  6. Other Foreign Manager

    21.2%
  7. Other Domestic Manager

    12.1%
  1. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Kaka' is not A team, but he does have a marketing pull. Just look at Ronaldinho today, I bet if you have any friendly game with him on the team in some of these countries, they'd pack up the house just to see him. Think of these guys in China who would never have a chance to see these guys live. They'd pay whatever to see them even though they are clearly over the hill.

    Having said that, Dunga doesn't seem to be one to call up someone against his will. Unless he has changed a bit.
     
  2. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #2677 Ombak, May 20, 2015
    Last edited: May 20, 2015
    No doubt about it. But if you read the contract, the third party marketing group could also sue Brazil for not playing at full strength. (By playing Kaká - it'd be simple to argue he's not A squad material today, unless there's something that says once you're A you're always A).

    So this is part of the problem with this conversation:
    • people criticize the contract for (according to them) doing x.
    • people criticize the team for doing y.
    • people conflate x and y even when they contradict each other.
    • then people like me nitpick and we get into arguing about the arguments and not about important stuff.
    I realize my nitpicking is problematic at times and I always fall back into this old habit when I get passionate about stuff. On the other hand, it's frustrating to hear people rattle off unrelated and even contradictory criticisms when there are a million perfectly valid things to complain about.

    The problems with the contract are that Brazil doesn't pick the venue, the opponent etc. and that the Olympic team becomes completely divorced from the main squad. Calling Kaká up or any other specific player is a problem with the coach, possibly a problem with relationships within CBF and Brazilian soccer, but unrelated to the contract issues.
     
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  3. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
  4. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
  5. MerlinRM

    MerlinRM Member+

    May 5, 2014
    NorthEast USA
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Its Fred from Shaktar. Another player who'll be in the mix during qualifiers for having played under Dunga.
     
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  6. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
  7. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    That's the problem, it opens up for so many technicalities that they'll never be caught of any wrong doing. The contract is extremely broad and open with definitions.

    But firing the coach that wants to integrate call ups between youth teams and the senior team kind of shows that's not their intention.
     
  8. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Keeper from Cuiabá should get the starting spot in the Copa America.
     
  9. MerlinRM

    MerlinRM Member+

    May 5, 2014
    NorthEast USA
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I think because Neymar will be missing but Fred is a midfielder anyway so this might be a chance for one of them to steal a spot. Esp Felipe. Douglas Costa was a waste of a pick.
     
  10. JoãozinhoFutebol

    Feb 16, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Comparing the best defensive midfielder in the world to David Luiz kind of nullifies your argument.
     
  11. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    You're correct that saying the system can make a world of a difference. Busquets is not fast, but he is no average player. Saying he can't mark is not accurate. What he lacks in speed, he makes up in intelligence and anticipation. Remember Dunga was slow as molasses in 94 and had a great WC. Again, you're right, the system does matter. If those 2 players are isolated with fast players, they will most likely get beat. Plus Busquets is a great player because he can handle and pass the ball. Something we have been lacking in the DM position for a long time.

    Pique is slow in the sense of changing directions and getting up to speed.

    Dani Alves leaves spaces behind him we all know that.

    Dante is bad even in a good system as far as I am concerned.
     
  12. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Where is this post that everyone is quoting from Guigs? I'm not seeing it on my phone.
     
  13. The Potter

    The Potter Member+

    Aug 26, 2004
    England
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Is Coutinho well regarded in Brazil? I think he's a better player than Sterling - who happens to be on the news every 2 seconds if you live in England.
     
  14. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I would say Liverpool fans hold him in higher regard. I think some people are starting to recognize him over the past year. He was a highly regarded youth player, but did very little as a pro with Vasco. He the stagnated in Europe with Inter and his loan moves and I'd say most people forgot about him.
     
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  15. Bakaman

    Bakaman Member

    May 8, 2008
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I rate him quite high, though he has yet to deliver for our NT.... Though to be fair he didn't have a fair number of chances so far. Let's see how he does in the CA.

    The thing I like the most about him is the weight of his passes. So satisfying to see the ball stop exactly where it should.
     
  16. NotreDameFlamengo

    Jul 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    It seems first impressions last long in Brasil and are hard to shake off. There are guys who developed late, but will always be written off because they didnt produce in Brasil early on. Then there are other guys that debuted with a ton of hype and fan fare and will always be looked upon more favorably than their worth.
     
  17. The Potter

    The Potter Member+

    Aug 26, 2004
    England
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Robinho?
     
  18. NotreDameFlamengo

    Jul 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Yes, he is currently is and has been for a few years. Tons of people are dying for him to come to their squads in Brasil right now, yet his contract demands are insane for the kind of impact he would have.

    In reference to Coutinho, aside from the people that watch the EPL regularly, they still view him as the player he was at Vasco and Inter Milao. And also from the relatively unproductive stint he had with the Selecao. He deserved more opportunities, yet people will remember his call-ups and him not standing out. I really dont have a strong opinion on him one way or the other. With him it all depends on the style and role of the other upfront players. It seems like he needs to be very involved and on the ball in order to be at his best, and I don't think he'll ever get that opportunity with the Selecao.
     
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  19. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    He's worth every penny he is paid, the impact he has in the lockeroom is huge and on the field he has been very good. Sure he gets injured a bit but the only thing that really hurts his value is the possibility of him missing games with the selecao. I'd pay for his gas and give his entourage jobs if I was trying to win the league or the copa brasil.
     
  20. Bakaman

    Bakaman Member

    May 8, 2008
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Seems like we lost Diego Alves to injury. That's a real shame, like I said before I wanted him to be our #1 GK and was hoping for him to take the spot during the training for the Copa :( Jefferson it is, then.
     
  21. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Bakaman...I totally agree!! So I guess Neto slides in that 3rd slot then
     
  22. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    Neto has been pretty good this season as well so his replacement isn't crap. Should of been part of the the original 3 GK's IMO.

    Alves is blow b/c his penalty saving instincts could of been useful if it would come to that.
     
  23. NotreDameFlamengo

    Jul 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
  24. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Shoot I'd recalled our goalkeeping coach Taffarel instead!!:p
     
  25. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil

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