Post-match: Seattle Sounders FC - San Jose Earthquakes (Wednesday, 4/24) postgame thread [R]

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019...should-we-take-improving-san-jose-earthquakes

I think Warsaw's analysis is naive... it's not that fixed such that players are running all over (they do switch and there is some zonal marking happening too). I played "man to man" in high school and it required more fitness and more tactical awareness than zone marking (to avoid the pitfalls). No system is perfect, but I don't agree that "it doesn't make sense".

He did three years at Chivas (presumably) using the same style and ended up in pretty positive territory overall:

Games: 97
Wins: 44
Draws: 31
Losses: 22

That's not a lot of teams "learning" the system and exploiting it (I assuming three years is enough time for most opposing teams to figure it out).

 

I remember that unseemly organized supporters chant, but was it the first Sounders visit to Buck Shaw (in 2009, a 4-0 Quakes win)? I seem to recall it being a later visit, and it might have even been Timbers fans.

 

Like any group, there are good and bad apples. I know some very likeable Sounders fans, especially those involved with the Heritage Cup -- one of whom is donating a Heritage hat from Wednesday's game to the Soccer Legacy Collection at History San Jose.

. . . a Heritage hat giveaway to the first 12,000 fans through the gates, with the Heritage Cup on display and available for fan photos . . .

https://www.soundersfc.com/post/201...asl-past-heritage-match-vs-san-jose-wednesday

 

For the game against Dallas I'm going to try my best to just watch one Quakes player and see how strict the whole person-marking scheme really is. In the games I've attended, it seemed a lot more loose than people were letting on.

One big question about an actual person-marking scheme is what the heck do you do when you go on offense? If you were genuinely going to person-mark from top to bottom, you then couldn't really have an offensive plan at all.

I guess that's more or less what Seattle had to do in order to accommodate, but in the games I have watched, it seemed very clear to me that the Quakes had an offensive plan. They knew what they wanted to do when they had the ball and players were expected to be in certain places. Players moved around and changed sides, on occasion, but it's not as if Hoesen played left-mid because his marker was there. He played center (lone) forward in a recognizable way, and the wide midfilders played in the wide midfield areas most of the time.

 

It looked a lot tighter against Seattle than it previously appeared. Maybe they're doing it better now?

Who was the speedy Seattle guy with the ball Cummings was trying to track step for step as he scampered across the width of the field in the second half? That was scary and impressive.

 

Photo courtesy Jeff Shulman via NedZ.

 

Of course having a team that overall is much more talented than much of the competition helps, rather than the other way around. If your best 11 and subs are a ton better than pretty much every counterpart on the other side you will win. That said, Chivas is doing awful this season.

 

The rest is unnecessary.

 

Shea improved his overall game playing as fullback. Why do you think that he’s playing over Vako now ?

 

I’m looking forward to seeing your analysis!
However, I think it’s better to do this in person at a stadium, because the TV cameras don’t let you see the whole team’s configuration.

 

That was my impression, too.

 

I think it is more of a zone kind of scheme possibly. A player comes into your zone and he is your mark. You may have a player you are to look for in your zone but if they are not there you latch onto another player. If this is the case I can see a team trying to create a mismatch when they figure out who is to look for whom. But that is just how you play an team sport anyway. Find/create a mismatch and exploit it.

 

I agree it would probably be better to do live, but I'm not sure I could focus on one player like that in person. I do still consider myself a fan, and tend to get caught up in the emotional highs and lows of a game even if I'm trying not to. It's a lot easier to think about the game critically when I can sit on the couch, turn the sound off, and watch the broadcast.

 

I could take a look at the heat maps of previous games, and I pan to do that for the Dallas game specifically to compare if what I'm seeing matches up with the reality. My suspicion is that some players do more person-marking than others, sort of like what you're suggesting.

 

Chivas was also awful before the man marking change (as were the other teams Almeyda coached).

 

That's a very real possibility. I haven't been able to watch the game against Seattle, so they may have gone to a more extreme level of the marking scheme than they had previously. Whatever the scheme, I am certain the Quakes have gotten better at it.

I'm also really curious about the comments about the Quakes looking chaotic. In the games where they've been competitive, I would absolutely not characterize them that way, so it'll be interesting to see another road game and how that pans out.

 

There were certainly some match ups that were supposed to be just one person. You'd see the outside backs, for example, kinda all over and I'm sure Godoy is meant to be marking their best midfielder.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if it is set up that way every game. But the best defender on the the best offensive player is a wise move to make.

 

Wasn't "chaotic" a description from the Seattle perspective?

Of course it was "chaotic" from their standpoint. Salinas was marauding them and Espinoza was getting clean breakaways. Meanwhile, Jordan Morris was stumbling over himself.

 

Most teams seem to try to man mark in set play situations at least when it comes to the initial kick. That is why teams have pick mechanisms to free a player from his marker and players try to make elaborate runs to shed their marker. It looked to me that it was a total failure of the markers on both goals.

 

Salinas was man marking the goal scorer on the first goal...barely got beat to the ball, it was a 50/50 situation and the guy looked like he outmuscled him...maybe coming in late on his blind side.

Second goal was a groaner. we should have dealt with the ball out wide way better. Lodeiro gets space to pick his pass...Shipp was fresh, just subbed on...he made a hard committed sprint into the box...caught Jackson by surprise...he couldn't make up the half a yard...first time shot...a split second lapse in focus.
Valuable lesson learned for Jackson. I'm sure Almeyda reviewed that play with him.

I think when analysts call the system chaotic, it is due to how strange it looks compared to 4/8 block zone. The rotations can look comical when you have one of your CBs man marking well past his own center mids...and then the mini fire drill that takes place to trade off and cover the opposing attacker who wants to exploit the space the CB just got pulled out of. It takes a freakish level of communication...huge learning curve.

I think our goal is to always have at least one of the CBs as the free sweeper. But the first thing the opposing team wants to do, knowing one of your CBs is locked into man marking, is pull him out of the middle and send an attacker flying into that space....forcing us to adjust quickly. Repeat that about 300 times a game all over the field...makes for a highly entertaining open game.

When we're communicating well it enables suffocating pressure. When the communication and marking trade offs are slow (first 20 min of Seattle game)...or we're completely gassed toward the end of the game, it looks terrible and wide open. The system is built for disciplined, high work rate, two way players with speed. That's why Salinas is playing over Vako at left mid...Salinas gives you 100% commitment and effort on both sides of the ball.

So I wouldn't call it chaotic, that gives the impression of total confusion. There is a method to the madness...probably fire drill would be more appropriate.

This is about as wide open and entertaining as it gets.

It's crazy watching Danny sprint back to cover their CB who is driving the ball up field. Then someone fills in up top...

As far as what happens when we break out...we're absolutely looking to play to Espinoza on the flank...he looked like first option most of the time.

 

My armchair is super bitchin’! I’ve got a mission-style recliner that is just awesome comfortable, and the arms are wide enough to hold a pitcher of beer and a bottle of whiskey. Also, it’s in the same room as the stereo and TV, so there’s that.

Wonder if I should have learned to play the sax or trumpet, rather than guitar?

Maybe I should start a Reddit account?

Go Quakes!!

- Mark