Pre-match: Saturday night DC United at Philadelphia Union 7/9/16

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by usadcu, Jul 6, 2016.

  1. Theopisa

    Theopisa Member+

    Pisa Sporting Club
    Italy
    Oct 7, 2008
    Venezia
    Club:
    Pisa Calcio
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Ben Olsen
     
  2. tallguy

    tallguy Member+

    Sep 15, 2004
    MoCoLand, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is it. If I were the coach, I'd pretty much bench all the starters except for Birnbaum & Hamid, and start scrubs. It might not work, but it would get the players' attention. Frankly, I don't think that Mancini could play worse than Espindola did last night.
     
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  3. roadkit

    roadkit Greetings from the Fringe of Obscurity

    Jul 2, 2003
    Fornax Cluster
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ashton has a round face. I know lots of guys that look like he does, and people make the mistake of thinking they are fat. My guess is you don't last long in the athlete business if you're fat.

    Unless you're Sigi - in which case it's mandatory.
     
  4. QuietSide

    QuietSide Member

    Oct 18, 2002
    My random observations from inside the stadium (and some that aren't necessarily specific to yesterday):

    1. Both the PKs happened at the end we were sitting at. I swear to you as Pontius was driving at Opare I was saying out loud watch for the cut back. I mean, how could he have not seen that coming. The dude has one move. The second PK seemed like one of those kick it past the guys and then run into his back kind of fouls but I probably would have given it as well. My wife continues to insist to me that you can't make that call after you've already given another PK but I think we had maybe already gotten that no-call on a different foul in the box... :) Along with the PKs, the ref called every single touch a foul. It took us a while to figure this out but eventually we seemed to recognize that if you fell over you would get a call. I thought the ref was consistent, and by consistent I mean consistently bad. He reffed the game like it was U9 rec league game and he didn't understand that a shoulder to shoulder challenge is legal. So you've got two professional teams playing the way they normally due and a ref who was not on the same page... Didn't cause us to lose the game, but made watching the game rather unenjoyable...

    2. I had a long write-up in the RSL game thread about observations about our team that were made by the RSL radio guys. One of the things I forgot to put on there was they made a comment something along the likes of "Opare looks really uncomfortable on the ball." Thought it was an interesting observation and not one that I had really focused on. We worked hard this past game to play the ball out of the back - Hamid was visibly annoyed when he couldn't play a ball short - and I wonder if that would have worked a little better with Boswell. Not saying Boswell is a machine playing it out of the back, just saying he has maybe a higher comfort level of when its ok to play and when to just boot it...

    3. I'm not sure Steve Birnbaum is all that. I'm not saying he's bad, and obviously he's the least of our troubles, but I'm not sure I really see anything amazing either. Maybe that's good for a center back. But I remember in Ryan Nelson's heyday here thinking this dude is the man. I don't get that at all with Birnbaum. This is just a random thought as opposed to a Philly game thought. He kind of reminds me of Guzan in this regard. I've never understood why Guzan was so highly rated. When he went to England I remember thinking, really? I have that same vibe with Birnbaum.

    4. Epsindola has really been terrible this year and sadly I don't think the wing is the answer. He just doesn't work had enough over there. He never seemed to be in sync with anyone else as to where he should be - when it was time for him to make a run he was standing still and when he should have been showing he was off making a run - and the number of times I saw him lose the ball and then not hustle back on defense was alarming. With that said, there was one point where I said to my son, Espindola has quit on this game and then he hustled all the way to the endline to defend. Still, if would could send him to a Western team (I don't want to see him 3 times a year) and get something of value in return I think that would be a great decision.

    5. I was very high on Marcelo at the beginning of the year but he is in a free fall right now. He is trying to do too much offensively, which if you are the 1 in a 4-1-4-1 here's a golden rule - you can't lose the ball. Yet he is losing the ball over and over again by trying to dribble past players. Move the ball. Stir the drink.

    6. Acosta. Seriously, why is he not starting? Are you frustrated that he loses the ball too much Ben? Guess what, your entire central midfield is doing the same thing, except none of them offer even a smidge of the same offensive creativeness that he brings. I swear to you, and I know I'm probably projecting, but it really looked to me like Acosta gave a huge FU to Olsen last night. It happened around the 75th or 76th minute, Acosta was playing on the left wing at the time, and we came out on a little bit of a break and Acosta got the ball with about four guys on him. He didn't really have much of an option and I think he may have tried to go sideline which would have gotten him past the last guy. In any event, he lost the ball. Someone from the bench (I think Olsen) said something to him - this happened right in front of our bench - and Acosta looked over and puts his hands out to say, what do you want me to do? A minute or so later, I think, he gets the ball right in front of the bench again. He dribbles right at his guy, stops, turns, and passes backwards to Kemp I think. He might as well have pulled a Mathis and run over to the coach after scoring and tapped his wrist. Again, I am probably reading way more into it than what was there, but it was striking...

    7. I thought Kamara was solid. I know some on this thread were lamenting his lack of touch, but I think this was more of a lack of familiarity with his teammates issue. It looked to me on a couple of occasions that he was putting the ball where he thought people would be and they just weren't there. I thought he got better as the game went along which leads to the subs...

    8. Honestly, I have a hard time making the case for any of the subs that Olsen made. We're down 2-0 at half and have stunk up the joint. No subs. No message sent. They score 2 minutes into the second half, essentially ending the game. No sub. You wait 10 minutes, and then just as Kamara seems to be finding the game a little bit and has had 2 chances, you sub him off with a like-for-like sub. No, swing for the fences, I'll try something crazy like two forwards and pull a defender or a midfielder. Ok. whatever. You're admitting defeat really at that point. Then you wait almost 10 more minutes and you put in Acosta for DeLeon. Ok, that was what you should have done at the start of the game, or at worst at half time or then at absolute worst at the 48th minute. Then Opare gets his second yellow (more on that in a minute) and you're forced to make a decision. The game is completely lost, so we can play with 3 in the back and see how that goes (a great opportunity to get a look at a different formation) or we can sub in a center back so we definitely have four in the back and play a 4-4-1 with two outside mids who are playing out of position. Ok, we're going to sub in the center back, do we take the grizzled veteran or the young kid who has shown well and could really use some minutes and let's see how he does in this pressured situation. Let's go with the grizzled veteran... Sigh. The one caveat to this, I suppose, is that I'm willing to admit that the Boswell sub may have actually been a smart long-term thinking sub in the sense that our playoff hopes may come down to a tiebreaker and maybe, just maybe, bleeding away 2 or 3 more goals in this game could be the difference between us making the playoffs or not...

    9. Neagle is another play for me who falls into the Birnbaum category. He's not bad, but I'm not sure he's really all that good either. What does he bring again?

    10. Remember earlier this year when someone, maybe it was the FC Dallas coach, made the passing comment about how we have two of the best outside backs in the league. I'm beginning to think that is how teams game plan us. Let Kemp and Franklin get forward with the ball as much as they want. Nothing dangerous will ever come from it... For the amount those two touch the ball in the offensive half of the field we really need to be getting more. Man I miss Najar...

    11. My comment at half time to my sons was I just want someone on this team to show me they care. I would have LOVED to seen a red card in the first half after the second PK. An FU I've had enough of this I"m fighting for my shirt kind of foul. At least a yellow. Get thrown out Olsen. Something. I'm trying to decide if Opare answered my plea in the second half with his second yellow. It was a hell of a foul. But, from the other end of the stadium, it looked more like a clumsy I'm not good kind of foul instead of a I've had enough of this kind of foul. The fact that it was a yellow instead of a red also leans me in that direction. But who the hell knows...

    12. Add it all up, this team is depressing. My kids can tell they suck. I can tell they suck. I want to believe. It's becoming harder and harder to do so. Remember a couple of years ago when the ManU fans were all pissy about the Glazers and had some sort of alternate color scarfs that they wore to show their displeasure. We need to think about something like that. I was reading a Four Four Two article about Orlando's firing of Adrian Heath and it included this sentence: "It's not necessarily just owners going rogue on their own technical staff either — there are potential structural fault lines all over the league: the awkward marriage of personalities and ideologies in Chicago; the new LA team's ownership by every vaguely-connected-to-soccer/Los Angeles-person-you-ever-heard-of; the indistinct consortium at D.C. United (where it's hard to see who's driving a stadium project in a city where, more than nearly any other, projects need to be driven). And of course there's the shaky NYCFC foothold with the Yankees, and the Red Bulls being...well, they're called the "Red Bulls" for a start." The indistinct consortium at D.C. United... Haha. What f'ing joke we've become.
     
  5. shammypants

    shammypants Member+

    Oct 9, 2013
    Club:
    DC United
    The problem is that 1/3 of the time DC United and many individual players are "fine" and 2/3 of the time they're awful. It gives enough of a false impression of potential to prevent any kind of real uprising since the team hasn't achieved anything meaningful in years and expectations are low.
     
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  6. Bootsy Collins

    Bootsy Collins Player of the Year

    Oct 18, 2004
    Capitol Hill
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd have to know more about what's meant by "runs training," and whether that's every day. I took that as "running the drills", which is not where I'd first focus my ire at the failings you list above.
     
  7. DCUSA

    DCUSA Member+

    Jan 14, 2006
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It must be difficult to judge what quality the players have when they are at a halfass commitment level. I think most of it is confusion about their roles, and some is a player having their own agenda, but there can't ever be a sharpness without full commitment.

    Blah blah blah

    Jaime Moreno, fantastically skilled player, made 40 or 50 hard runs off the ball a game. All Arena teams give no joy because they test and prod constantly with running.
    DeLeon might make 3 lung busting runs a game. He's content to sit in the middle and wait, and no one is telling him otherwise. He should be taking off in a sprint nearly every time he passes the ball - if only to open space!
    United plays like a team just guessing and reacting. To me, it's frustrating because that seems like something that could and should be fixed.
     
  8. QuietSide

    QuietSide Member

    Oct 18, 2002
    I agree with your general question of do we have any real knowledge of what Ashton is responsible for.

    Two data points I can think of.

    Pre game - Ashton is the guy out there working with the team. For instance, when they are shooting on goal, Ashton plays the role of u10 coach and has the players pass to him, he lays it off, they shoot... Also, Ashton is often out on the field post half time running the group through a couple of warm ups. If that's what it means to "run practice" I'm not sure it means much...

    Subs - from observing from my seats, Olsen is the one who makes the decision about when to sub and Ashton is the one who talks to the player about tactics, often using a dry erase board to illustrate whatever it is he wants him to do.

    My gut instinct for those who have been around awhile: Chad Ashton is to Ben Olsen as John Trask was to Ray Hudson.
     
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  9. DCUSA

    DCUSA Member+

    Jan 14, 2006
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    True. Isn't he kind of infamous for all the five v three drills when United couldn't pass a lick? Maybe hearsay, my memory is foggy.
     
  10. DCUSA

    DCUSA Member+

    Jan 14, 2006
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hate those pregame warmups where they just crank shot after shot over the bar from 15 yards and no one cares. I feel like it only reinfoirces the negative. I guess these are professionals, both the players and coaches, so I want to trust they have a handle on it, but I wish everyone took it seriously then went out and scored four clinically.
     
  11. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    As many have said he organizes and runs the drills. Ben takes part in ht drill (ala player) and adds his coaching opinions from within the drill. Add to that where Ashton is in charge of the warmups and the subs instructions that is where I lay the fault at his feet. Olsen is more of a manager than a coach.
     
  12. DangSkippy

    DangSkippy Member+

    Apr 28, 2009
    MoCo Maryland
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gosh, there was just so much to dislike about that game, I don't know where to begin.
    Actually, a lot of what I wanted to say has been covered. I'll just add defensive shape was a mess; I consistently saw a defender two yards behind the rest of his line, playing the guy he was marking onside. Opare was guilty not a few times in the first half, but he was hardly the only one.
    And I really think these guys play offense the same way most pick-up games are played - if there is a thought out strategy beforehand, I certainly can't see it.
     
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  13. Petworth Posse

    Feb 24, 2009
    Club:
    DC United
    How about this for a revolutionary idea: We season ticket holders refuse to invest in the new stadium - we won't buy tickets - until Dave Kasper and Ben Olsen are removed for experienced leadership with a proven track record.
     
  14. QuietSide

    QuietSide Member

    Oct 18, 2002
    I've never sat and watched a full warm-up but I've been up in the Champions Club on occasion before the game and seen the end of warm-ups and I know exactly what you are talking about. You can watch that shooting drill and think, gee, I understand why we don't score a lot...

    With that said, I caught the end of this drill in Philly (our seats were down at the end we were warming up in) and guys were ripping shots into the net, pasting shots just inside the post left and right. Even DeLeon hit a beauty. I was thinking this could be our night...
     
  15. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh and Ben was so pissed at them he made several of the players give us their jerseys's. Costing the players $$$s. I got Neagle. My brother got Birnbaum.
     
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  16. DecadeOfDCU26

    DecadeOfDCU26 Member+

    May 2, 2007
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As a season ticket holder, ******** that, I'm gonna keep watching live soccer.
     
  17. DecadeOfDCU26

    DecadeOfDCU26 Member+

    May 2, 2007
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The players have to buy their own shirts? what
     
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  18. Oveki8

    Oveki8 Member+

    May 4, 2012
    Club:
    DC United
    The indistinct consortium on the field for D.C. United, describes this team.

    Hamid and hope, no longer gives me any hope.
     
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  19. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Virginia
    They normally only get a couple of each for the season.
     
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  20. NicktheGreek

    NicktheGreek Member+

    Feb 15, 2001
    The team has never had proper newspaper coverage or a reporter who wasn't out of his depth once the discusssions went beyond fashion, haircuts and lifestyles. Saying that, if you actually were a competent, serious, soccer writer you'd never lower your standards to cover these fools.
     
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  21. QuietSide

    QuietSide Member

    Oct 18, 2002
    Two quick replies to this.

    1. I am 100% convinced this would have zero impact on our current ownership group. They are 100% sure that once the new stadium is built it will automatically be packed with inner-city-living millenials because that is what has happened in other cities. In fact, I would even take it a step further and say ownership would love to just cut loose all the current season ticket holders and supporter groups and all of the "privileges" they think they are entitled to due to their long support. Again, the stadium is going to automatically be packed by millenials. The current season ticket holders are irrelevant...

    2. While I have at times been highly critical of Ben Olsen and Dave Kasper, I am willing to give them a chance under an ownership that cares, is willing to invest in the team, and is ready to hold them accountable for results.

    The ManU protest with the green/yellow scarves and jersey was all about the Glazers (at least I think it was). That is my biggest protest right now. I am 100% anti Jason Levien and Erick Thohir and would love to have a way to visibly demonstrate my view on game days...

    I don't know - a gray and pink UNITED shirt (instead of black and red).

    I'm open to ideas and suggestions...
     
  22. Bootsy Collins

    Bootsy Collins Player of the Year

    Oct 18, 2004
    Capitol Hill
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I remember the last time large masses of fans stood up and complained like you describe. The experienced leadership with a proven track record that then came in was Curt Onalfo.
     
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  23. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Not sure I can support this belief. These "Millennials" you speak of are fleeting fans. Here today gone tomorrow, off to the next Starbucks. Not sure that is the best business choice and they are not a steady stream of constant income. Those with an "investment" are a steady income.
     
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  24. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    I'm not sure the current FO knows what the "best business choice" is but they seem pretty confident that they do.
     
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  25. DecadeOfDCU26

    DecadeOfDCU26 Member+

    May 2, 2007
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They need to do whatever it takes to convince the Eurosnobs to come out. DC is always like top 2 for international soccer TV ratings. The love of the sport is here (largely I woud say due to the large international contingent also in the area).

    This is where money is. Convince these people to get off their ass and watch a live game.
     

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