Post-match: San Jose Earthquakes - Minnesota United FC (Saturday, 3/3) postgame thread [R]

Joe Dickerson, who gave a talk at the SJSRA meeting recently, told the attendees that in the one MLS game he did on Decision Day last season, Mark Geiger was his VAR. And on every potential call, Geiger would say "Check" to let him know that review was not necessary. So it appears the VARs review every situation for the potential of clear and obvious error. Then, if such a situation occurs, they can tell the CR he can review it on the TV.

BTW, it is cautionable if a player asks for VAR or makes the TV signal to the ref.

 

That sounds like a good system, to me. You just have to trust the two officials to do their jobs, like always, but now with better tools. There is the additional requirement to be a ref now, though, that your ego can handle that immediate feedback in your ear. There might be a group of existing refs who were never subjected to that before and won't handle it well.

 

Might?

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. Godoy's lack of awareness to pick up Molino is the problem. I'd have to look at it again, but of the three similar opportunities for Molino, I believe two of those are on Godoy. And I'll bet Flo was either higher up field or swung out wider on both of those occasions. In those situations, Godoy has to pick up the middle protection in front of the back line. Imo, it is a glaring weakness when this scenario happens. I've been ranting about it forever. When Godoy is tasked with that coverage, the results are spotty at best...big vulnerability.

 

In pondering this question on my drive home from the office, I think it is a good question to pose to the refs themselves.

None of them, so far as I know, think they are fallible.

Here's a proposal: sh*t-can VAR and instead subject referees to the same post-game second-guessing as the players receive. Run the video frame-by-frame and let them narrate their absurd excuses for the fans to dissect. The quality of officiating will improve dramatically. I guarantee it.

Wondo has answered questions for years about his miss against Belgium. No MLS referee has ever shown even remotely the same dignity about his mistakes, to my recollection. I'm still waiting on an apology for the Bobby Burling phantom red card, for example.

 

"If we are going to have video review, then we need diffused responsibility. If the judicial system made a ruling appealable only to the judge who made it, and only on that judge's own say so, the system would collapse under its own weight or under insurrection from the masses."

I do not believe this is an apt comparison. We are talking about something that is supposed to happen within a few moments of ocurrance of the underlying situation. What you DON'T want is a referee sitting in the pressbox MAKING calls. The VAR is there to ASSIST (the "A" in VAR is Assistant). You are conflating two very different things here.

 

I have personally spoken with every single MLS CR from Esse Baharmast through Joe Dickenson, and your contention is ridiculous. I'm sorry, but that is simply ignorant, inflammatory, and incorrect.

 

I think your perspective is biased by your close association with the refs. My point is that if they speak publicly about their gaffes in the immediate aftermath of games we fans will have a greater appreciation for their humanity, and they will develop greater humility.

You're right, I'm ignorant. I don't recall a single instance where an MLS referee publicly admitted after the fact to having botched a call. Educate me by citing links to instances where this has happened.

 

If VAR is simply technological assistance, I suggest instead prescription eyeglasses.

 

You're setting it up so that unless I can do exhaustive research you're right and I'm wrong. Nice example of argumentum ad ignorantiam.

 

And now an ad hominem attack on the refs? Really???

 

The latest issue of Howler has a great article about Mark Geiger where he talks about the bad Gold Cup call that took him a long time to get over

Another way to educate your perspective would be to take an AYSO U8 referee class. Maybe you should try one, Don!

 

I wear prescription eyeglasses. My vision without them is awful. I don't consider the admission one of self-flagellation or to be an ad hominem attack on myself, merely an acknowledgment of my human fallibility, a matter you stipulated as to referees earlier in this thread.

Really, insofar as you perceive a recommendation that officials try eyeglasses as opposed to VAR as a first line of technological innovation to be an ad hominem attack, it underscores that you are perhaps too close to the referees to evaluate a critique dispassionately. I was joking about the eyeglasses. I should have used a smiley face. Another of my many flaws, along with my bad eyesight.

 

Before cataract surgery, I was practically blind. Didn’t stop me from refereeing!
Plenty of refs wear glasses, Don. Enough with the excuses already! Get yourself to a ref class! I suspect you will love it!

 

I'll give it some thought. I could use the exercise.

 

See, that’s what I would look like if I didn’t referee!

 

I don't know if it was awareness, Godoy appeared to be completely gassed by about the 70th minute and was no longer able to hustle back to get between the ball and goal.

 

Agreed, I'm not sure why one would assign root cause to anything other than obvious effects of fatigue. Whether you think Godoy is a good player or not, he clearly was becoming less and less effective after about the 70th minute mark.

 

Anyone have any news about Quintana, I see him not listed on the injury report his week which doesn't mean much since we don't play. Is he OK to go in KC?

 

Don, from my perspective all your prescriptions for 'improvement' only lead one further down the path to the point of NFL where it takes 10 minutes to review an obvious call in the most watched game of the season.

Those minutes were literally the only time all season I purposely sat down to watch. And I was quickly reminded why I've tuned it out.

I'll gladly take the occasional ref gaffe as we lived with for the first 50 years I watched soccer rather than head down the road of an attempt at a perfectly adjudicated game that requires a gaggle of lawyers and judges to work through their collective review of the 10,000 page rulebook that results.

 

One of the articles about the Quakes during their break indicated that he will be good to go. I think it was just a mild sprain.

 

Me too. I'm all for banishing video review of any sort.

But if we are going to allow video review . . .

 

Then give each team only one challenge to review what they regard as an obvious injustice. Issue a red card if the review is unsuccessful. The challenges will be sparing and used in only the most egregious cases.

What I advocate is not to let a referee adjudicate his or her own allegedly clear error. Because he or she "might" not be a fair arbitrator of his or her own "fallibility."

We have lengthy feigned injury stoppages, as it is. I don't believe my prescriptions will alter the character of the game. And if they do, as I say, get rid of video review altogether.

 

Good news.

 

Joe Dickerson said he was actually really glad to have that, cuz it was immediate affirmation.

MLS and USL refs also have 2-3 hours of post-game reviews with assessors and mentors, so I guess immediate in your ear is probably more welcome than post-game slog. Unless of course you’re having a bad game...