S50: Netherlands v. Sweden, 3 July

Discussion in 'Women's World Cup' started by soccernutter, Jun 30, 2019.

  1. law10

    law10 Member

    Dec 26, 2007
    It's the same as Kang and Hansen in the Norway/South Korea game. Go to clear a ball in your box and miss it and drop the opponent between you and the ball and it's a PK. Surprised there's actually an argument with this. Every player and broadcaster and analyst I've heard comment has the same conclusion.
     
    MiLLeNNiuM and kolabear repped this.
  2. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I happened to see some discussion of it in the Ref Forum and all the refs - as opposed to the riff-raff like me who lurk there - say PK and it's not close.
     
    MiLLeNNiuM repped this.
  3. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Wow. This is pretty creative. Congrats.
     
    kolabear and MiLLeNNiuM repped this.
  4. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Are you sure? You also took a goal at 117' in a certain match in 2011... :whistling:
     
    MiLLeNNiuM and Reign Man repped this.
  5. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Please, no! :x3: She already had enough of them!
     
    Romario'sgurl repped this.
  6. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Yes: I most admit that, while watching the game, it happened to me a pair of times of being misled by the referee's kit: you could say that, after all, Sweden was playing in dark blue, so there shouldn't have been confusion, but I guess the fact that Sweden's primary kit is yellow played its part, if only in the unconscious back of our minds.

    I can swear that, at a certain point, I yelled to myself: "What that Dutch player is doing? Passing at an opponent?" and then I saw the ball quietly going past the referee to another Dutch player. :p
     
    kolabear and jocasta repped this.
  7. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Looks suspicious she didn’t get a quarters or semi....
    And Umpiérrez did the opener.

    Just sayin’
     
    blissett repped this.
  8. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    Hey, was it called a penalty? By the ref? No. By the VAR officials who reviewed it--and it was reviewed, according to the Sweden coach. No. So who's standing on the more solid ground here? The Swede wasn't running straight up--she initiates contact. As for those in the refs thread: Hey, I respect them but this sport is RIFE with subjective/interpretive calls.
     
  9. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    Surprised there's an argument? Funny. The referee didn't reach your conclusion--and neither did the VAR officials. There's that. You can argue over a bunch of calls in every soccer match--nature of the sport and nature of its rules.
     
  10. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I agree that the central referee was probably conditioned by all of the perfect tackles Van Lunteren had made previously in the game. Also, the change of direction of the ball, at normal speed, would probably seem much more consistent with Van Lunteren taking away the ball from Hurtig's feet, than with a touch by Hurtig herself (you would expect that Hurtig would have sent the ball right in fron of her, and not laterally).
    Finally, at normal speed I guess most of us had the impression of a clean tackle by Van Lunteren. For sure, I had, and Italian TV announcer had also.

    So, no doubt this was a foul, after reviewing the replay of it, but I can see very well why the central referee didn't noticed it and didn't even asked a VAR check.

    Of course, things are completely different for the VAR operators themselves: why didn't they see the foul? Did they review it? It happened multiple times, in this WWC, that it was them warning the central referee of a foul that had gone unnoticed during the play. were they somehow misled too into so strongly believing that it was a clean tackle that they didn't feel the need to review it? It doesn't seem possible, though! :x3: Their job should be indeed to review situations like this one.

    I have another doubt: what if they realized "too late" that it could have been a foul? We've seen many times, in this WWC, the ref stopping the game to wait for a VAR-room decision. Is there a "time window" for such decisions? Or you could call a PK even whole minutes after the action and after so many other things happened on the pitch?
    It's a genuine question, I ask because I don't know: is there any time-frame for VAR checks? Or a decision could be reversed even several minutes after the fact? :cautious:
     
    kolabear and MiLLeNNiuM repped this.
  11. Gilmoy

    Gilmoy Member+

    Jun 14, 2005
    Pullman, Washington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We take the bad with the good :coffee: I blame us, not the laws. Laws are neutral.
     
    MiLLeNNiuM and blissett repped this.
  12. JimWharton

    JimWharton Member

    Feb 25, 2017
    Had to watch the game late so too tired to read thru the thread, but...

    Good game, but felt cautious on both sides. Netherlands win again without playing their best. I thought both goalies played really well. The Dutch looked dead on their feet in the second half (forget extra time). Hope they recover enough to make it a game.

    Glad this is the match-up. Feels right. Sweden would have been anticlimactic.
     
    blissett, McSkillz and MiLLeNNiuM repped this.
  13. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    1146673300627755008 is not a valid tweet id
     
  14. jocasta

    jocasta Member

    Oct 11, 2003
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    Just an observation r.e. the tackle on Hurtig: the Swedish round-the-table commentators ran it a couple times in slow-mo last night, talked through each millisecond, and concluded that it should not have been a PK. The question is asked again right near the beginning of this newspaper-TV snippet, but not answered. I don't think anyone here is too fussed about it, so I guess I ought not be either.

    (The whole 2-minute clip includes a brief injury report from Rapinoe, and a quick interview with Sweden's women's basketball team, which is headed to the European quarterfinals.)
     
    Frysk Bloed, cpthomas and blissett repped this.
  15. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tweet didn't come through.
     
  16. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is he referring to Miedema?
     
  17. Steve Page

    Steve Page Member

    Oct 30, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    VARying opinions here. VAR is supposed to eliminate controversy. It does no such thing because the laws of the game are subjective. It needs a re-think. What rules are not subjective? Goalline technology determines whether the ball crosses the line and is not controversial. Offside should not be subjective. It has been controversial because people don't understand or don't like the rules as they are. Personally I think the rule could be altered slightly and different tech brought in to determine offside. It would not be the first time the offside rule had been changed... However, it has only been marginally controversial and most people have accepted the results including players and coaches. Until better tech can come in to speed decisions up then leave it as it is. VAR should also be used for bringing serious incidents to the attention of the referee that they have missed. Off the ball fouls. There hasn't been much of that in this tournament or, IIRC, in the mens tournament last year. Perhaps VAR is working as a deterrent. "Clear and obvious" is also very subjective. I would define it as a decision where there is no room for doubt. "Beyond reasonable doubt". On that basis yesterday's non-penalty would remain as "referee's call" whichever way the ref gave it.

    Hopefully the Mods won't think this too far off topic!
     
    cpthomas and blissett repped this.
  18. Nope, not a penalty. Just look at the trajectory of the ball. It's moving in the direction the Dutch player moves her foot to kick it. The Swedish player is moving her foot in the opposite direction, so clearly with the intent to either block the Dutch player from reaching the ball or to simulate a foul. In fact the Swedish player herself is moving in the opposite direction of the ball.
    Excellent call of the VAR.
     
    Frysk Bloed and Brilliant Dutch repped this.
  19. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    This is interesting, because from one angle it looks like she does get a very slight touch of the ball, but from the other angle it doesn't
     
  20. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I heard she got injured and was sent home.
     
    blissett repped this.
  21. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, she got injured in the group stage, and was not kept in camp with the knockout stages' group of referees.
     
    soccernutter and blissett repped this.
  22. McSkillz

    McSkillz Member+

    UCLA Bruins
    United States
    Nov 22, 2014
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is going to sound like a dumb question but do the referees stay together at the same hotel and do they have their own award and celebration ceremony for completing a World Cup?
     
    blissett repped this.
  23. The match vs Sweden was watched by over 5 million in the Netherlands and made it the best watched soccer match in the last 5 years:eek:
    The Euro 2017 Final pulled in 4.1 million!
    Wonder what the numbers for this Final are going to be.
     
  24. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought that at first, also.
    However, after looking at it many times, I concluded that wasn't the case.
    I really don't care, at this point, nothing can change.
    Actually, I'm quite happy that the Dutch are through. I was rooting for them to win.
    My issue was that the VAR didn't bring it up with the main ref; it was baffling.
     
    blissett repped this.
  25. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #300 lil_one, Jul 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
    I don't know if they stay in the same hotel though I bet they do much of the time considering that sometimes even teams are staying at the same hotel. (While England was making such a stink about USSF officials visiting their hotel, the USWNT and Sweden were at the same hotel.) But they do generally all train together on separate fields from the players. (They also train together in workshops and training camps prior to the WWC.) In the past though, there have been a couple different "camps" for the referees (two different sets of hotels and fields), such as in Canada where there was an east camp and west camp since otherwise the distances travelled are too large.

    And I think the "award" is itself getting one of the elite knockout round games.

    EDIT to clarify: I don't know if there are one or two "camps" for the referees in this WWC. I just know what's been done in the past.
     
    soccernutter repped this.

Share This Page