Rob and Eric, you are...idiots

Technically speaking, seeing as they were analyzing a Chivas match, they have every right to talk about their defensive (or lack thereof) formation, their lousy goalie etc...

Quite frankly, I don't care if Eric is slightly anti-Chivas. They come into MLS, talking about how they are going to show up the Gringos, and then they play at a level that is commensurate to college ball. This is largely because they were so confident in the ability of the Mexican player that they bring over a bunch of rejects and they now wonder why they are being dominated. Bloody hell, is it any wonder that country is in the state that it is...

 

Quite right.

They are just plain horrid.

 

So... wait. Let me get this straight. Zuniga, the natural disaster that he is, teams up with a terrible Chivas defense to give up five goals, four in the second half, after leading at halftime 2-1, and you don't want them to "harp on" how awful the Chivas defense and keeper are?

What, you want them to praise the Chivas attack, or something?

 

agreed...but they do always talk about the same things that are not relevant to the game and if you look at the thread starter's comments carefully, he's merely asking them to call the game "Either get some new material or call the game for godsake." Now with that, I'd have to agree with the thread starter.

We know you don't care if Eric is slightly anti-Chivas
They were talking mess...and yeah they did bring in players from Mexico and did believe players from Mexico would be able to step up and compete in MLS. College ball level?yes.. MLS level? No.....and I agree there...but by the end of August this team will have a product on the field that will win back it's fans and pride for the club. Just wait and see....and within 4yrs time...we'll have to look back and see what a mountain they climbed when they finish on top of the Western Conference.

You are so lost it's not even funny...Romo, Cuadros, Begines, Loera, Mendoza are all players that were at the top of their game (in La Piedad mind you which equates to College ball IMHO). These guys are 20, 21, 22 yrs old in a year of seasoning that this year has become I'd expect these guys to come up big in their sophomore year. Loera is 27yrs old and will be going back before all of these guys...he's not mentally strong and you can see that by his displays on the field. 4 out of 5 of CDG's prime prospects of the future are here and after the freshman year in MLS...I'm sure the 4 of 5 will be even better with the reinforcements on the way. Just hold onto your hat...but rejects they are not...just young and learning like any other young player. Landon, EJ were all special situations where a young player steps up and dominates and makes a name for themselves...these guys are not Landon and EJ so just let them grow on their own pace. As of right now, there aren't any other better players on the bench...so this is what we've got for now....but they are not rejects....

Ramon Ramirez has been doing well as of late and Zuniga...well he just sucks - period there's no help there man...

A business owner's decisions is no reflection of the way a country is run.....look at Enron

I know the USA isn't run like that and you do too...so don't think Mexico is in the trouble it's in because of the Chivas owner....that's ridiculous and infantile...

 

Waldo's a piece of sh!t. The less I hear from his mouth the better. He can't write worth a damn either.

 

a. as of now chivas usa sucks. you shouldn't blame waldo and stone for that.

b. not admitting that waldo dislikes mexicans is being naive.

c. stone and waldo do suck as broadcasters. "dear mls, why can't you bring back ray hudson as a broadcaster, team him up with tommy smyth and at least make it fun to listen to?"

I don't doubt rob stone loves soccer, but so do I, does that mean I should get a gig calling games? let stone, nay, make stone go host some lame ass game show and if waldo has to be involved in soccer, let him coach, at least the unfortunates who have to listen to his over inflated self will now be a much smaller audience.

 

Even JP Dellacamera is better than Rob Stone. At least he's professional about calling the game. Food for thought, get Gary Thorne to do the games. He does a great job with Hockey.

 

I feel sympathy for the Chivas players, but not for the management that slapped this side together thinking any collection of Mex and sorta Mex players can take MLS.... Rob and Eric would shut up if Chivas didn't give them so much to talk about. If it's true there is no such thing as bad publicity, Chivas is a success when it comes to generating a lot of talk.

I'm glad they tanked after a week plus of Westerhof cracking the whip -- tanked on his watch. Maybe he should face the facts -- if an all A-Team Mexican side is not possible in MLS, then they better restock next season and re-brand as Saprissa del Norte -- and forget the self-imposed restrictions on Gringos, Ticos, Chapines, and Canucks, among others. Just put together a team.

They might start by putting "the worm" back in goal. That worm had turned just as he was replaced by the star keeper from Mexico.

Of course, I may just be worrying that our Metro '99 record of futility might be beaten at last.

 

^ I disagree about the commentators talking smack due to Chivas management, I remember watching the first Galaxy-Chivas game and they looked over at the ESPN Deportes booth with Jorge Campos. Campos smiled and waived. I think it was Wynalda who said "Why are you smiling? You're losing!" Since when is Campos a Chivas fan? Is it because he's Mexican? Campos played for UNAM Pumas, Atlante, Cruz Azul, UANL Tigres, and Puebla and he also played for the Galaxy! So all Mexicans in the U.S. are Chivas fans? I'd like to see Wynalda say that to America fans.

 

he's just a dlck - simple as that....just his name makes me sick already

 

1. The reason why Eric and Rob often talk about the same things re. Chivas is that Chivas hasn't fixed the bloody problems it has had since the start of the season. Ergo, blame Chivas, not Eric and Rob.

2. The only way Chivas will have a team that wins back respect by August is if they dump about 3/4 of their squad. Now, perhaps in 4 years Chivas will have a good team, but their management is going to have to be slightly more wise than it has heretofore been.

3. The 5 aforementioned players all indeed came from the Mexican Second Division. I haven't watched La Piedad, so I don't know if they were the best on the team (nor do I know if they are the best Second Division players in all of Mexico, though I highly, highly doubt it). Nonetheless, the fact that the senior team let them go so easily at a point in their career when they should be integrated into the first team implies that they were not only expendable, but they were also, as I rightly claimed, rejects. And, even though you claim (and I can't dispute) that La Piedad is the equivalent of college ball, the vast majority of American college players have no place in MLS. Thus, it is not I who is lost, it is you...

4. Zuniga is horrible, and while Ramon might provide a good deal of leadership, he isn't playing all that well, so don't kid yourself.

5. And yes, a business owners decision is not necessarily a reflection of his country of origin. You point to Enron, so fair enough. Then again, comparing the US and Mexico is disingenuous at best.

 

Let them talk their sh1t, it will be nice to see how they respond when chivas starts doing good...

The only glaring mistake I have seen chivas make was selecting their other 2 SI players... I'm fairly confident that an average Mexican league player can step into MLS and be succesfull, But Loera and Zuniga arn't even that.

Replace them two with lets say...

Oscar Dautt and Manuel Vidrio, and you might have a decent chivasUSA team...

 

mathiaslg,

The sentence you wrote above which I highlighted is considered trolling.

Think before you post!

futbol de primera
CDCU forum Moderator

 

This is the whole point right here. If Eric is slightly anti-Chivas, then he's not doing his job as a broadcaster, as a journalist, and remaining an unbiased observer. And then when he makes asinine comments like the "Why are you smiling Jorge Campos, you're losing" ones clearly show that he feels this is a US-Mexico issue when it really isn't.

Chivas doesn't represent Mexico. Chivas represents Chivas. As one poster so correctly pointed out, Eric should as an America fan or Pumas fan or Cruz Azul fan how they feel about Chivas.

Eric's comments are borne out of hatred toward Chivas. That much I think is safe to assume. But whether or not his comments are a result of his hatred toward Mexico is another matter altogether. Is he racist? I think there was another thread dedicated to that, so I'll stay away from the subject.

However, one thing is clear: Eric doesn't like Chivas and what they represent. And having him do games in which they are playing makes no sense.

 

Well put...I think this thread is done man....we've been down this road too many times...

 

Where does it say he has to be unbiased? To my knowledge, the only people involved in a soccer match that have to be objective are the officials. Beyond that, there are no real boundaries. And, quite frankly, I doubt ESPN has Eric and Rob sign an objectivity clause in their contracts.

Furthermore, you claim Chivas doesn't represent Mexico, which is in and of itself a fair assertion. Then again, it was Vergara himself who stated before the season began that the idea behind Chivas USA was to put Latinos up against the Gringos. Now, given the culture behind Chivas, thinking that its mere existence in MLS wouldn't bring the Mexico-USA rivalry to the fore is naive at best. However, the fact that Vergara made such a contention so clearly implies that he does view this entire matter in that light, and who are we to argue?

Now, I will concede that Eric doesn't like Chivas, but I think you are missing the point of his commentary. While he might not like the culture--perhaps attitude is more appropriate--behind the club, and while he might not like Mexican soccer as a result of years of playing against them (and in all likelihood being treated as an inferior player simply because he was an American), that doesn't take away from the fact that his critique is correct. When he talks about their defensive failings, their goalkeeping problems and the lack of quality in midfield, he is totally right. That isn't racist at all, so stop being so defensive.

Truth be told, Eric likely wants to see the quality of MLS improve, and needless to say, Chivas isn't helping one bit. The fact that he points that out, regardless of his feelings towards the Club itself, is what is relevant. If you can't take that, listen to Christian Miles and Mauricio Guevara.

 

Please don't feed the trolls guys...

 

If you can't make a coherent argument, don't get involved.

 

No. No. This is my favorite part.


By the way.. what day would that be?

 

alrighty then...

The only time when broadcasters are clearly biased and it's okay is when they work for the club some how and are broadcasting on behalf of the club. Other than that they are really suppose to stay biased to the issue. You never hear sports broadcasters in any sport talking shlt about one team in particular and not the other...they pick on both. It's not a "rule" like you stated in another post on this thread but it's an unwritten rule. Don't believe in unwritten rules? then Romo's goal counted against Columbus....agree with that? I don't either....so people should adhere to the "spirit of the law" coherent enough for you?

agreed...but to win back respect by dumping 3/4 of their squad won't do much. It's the replacing of a few players that will help us compete that will win back respect and yes, within 4yrs time who knows.

EXACTLY!!!! You don't know...Chivas fans do....how can you doubt it if you don't know...so comment on things you know about...just a little advice...

For your information they were some of the top players, NOTICE I DID NOT SAY THE BEST PLAYERS...but SOME of the top players in La Piedad.

Wow, I don't know where to start...here we go...

Chivas de Guadalajara is stacked on the striker position with 4 Mexican National team strikers who are young, experienced and proven products in the 1st Division. To keep them in the family and to offer them a different experience they were moved to CDCUSA. Again, I offer your previous statement, "I haven't watched La Piedad, so I don't know if they were the best on the team (nor do I know if they are the best Second Division players in all of Mexico, though I highly, highly doubt it)."

As for college players not able to compete in MLS...well...that's what MLS is based upon is to offer college players and aspiring younger players to ply their trade on our American soil. If they couldn't hack it would be a little hard for Danny O'Rourke and co. to be making such good impressions their 1st year in MLS don't you think? Just asking....

Zuniga sucks everyone knows that - it's old news. As for RR..well Umm...he scored the other day and has been a very active player offensively for us. Not the BEST player but better than the rest on the bench for sure.

So, you agree then that you shouldn't correlate the way a business is run with the way a country is run right? You admit that not only was that comment disingenuous but it was flat out trolling as proclaimed by our forum moderator right? I just wanted to make sure that you know you were wrong with bringing up such issues correct?

 

That's Journalism 101. Asking Eric and Rob to sign objectivity clauses would be like asking a teacher to sign a clause saying that you will actually teach: it's understood as part of the job.

No matter what coaches, owners, fans, players say, clubs represent clubs. If Steve Sampson came out tomorrow and said the Galaxy represent the United States because they have Landon Donovan, it would be almost as bad as Vergara trying to say that Chivas represents Mexico. Chivas represents Chivas. Period.

Please tell me where I was being defensive about Eric's criticism of Chivas on the field. If he's breaking it down for us, great. He has a lot more access than I do or anyone else around here, so I would expect him to interject his thoughts on what's going right and/or what's going wrong.

Bottom line is Eric is anti-Chivas from the start and shouldn't be doing their games.

 

Thank you for responding (I am being serious) en masse, so I will answer in kind.

1. Well, just to get this out of the way, Romo scored on Colorado, not Columbus. Regardless, I believe the whistle blew before it went in, so it doesn't matter. As for your belief that commentators not employed by a given club should remain perfectly objective, that is indeed a very noble notion. But again, I think you are missing the point. I watch ESPN's coverage every time its on, and I hear Eric being critical (in some cases very critical) of just about every team out there--Chicago is, perhaps, the one team isn't so harsh on. As such, what you are really taking exception to is the fact that he gives Chivas an incredibly hard time. The problem is that you have essentially assumed he does because of his apparent hatred for CUSA (some have even argued that it is because he doesn't like Mexicans). While that may be the case, not only could you not prove it, but it is also a fact that Eric is, in all likelihood, quite harsh towards teams that aren't very good. Consequently, although he has certainly been biased, his numerous diatribes directed towards your Club has much more to do with your quality on the pitch than it does with your characteristics off it.

2. In the long-run, you will have to probably get rid of about 3/4 of your squad. In the short-term, and until you get some players during the transfer window in August, you are just going to have to do the things I have stated in different threads: better midfield-defense cohesion, put Guzan in goal and do something about your forwards. If you can't do that, it is going to be a long summer.

3. As for being among the top players in La Piedad, I never doubted that--whether they were the top players in the Second Division is what I was curious about. My point about College soccer remains, however. Most D1 college players (perhaps 90% or higher) are not good enough to even make an MLS squad, let alone play. You cite Danny O'Rourke, who hasn't done anything. Michael Parkhurst is a far better example. That being said, seeing as the vast majority of American college players aren't good enough for MLS, what makes you think it is any different for the vast majority of Second Division Mexican League players? This is on top of the fact that they all came from a single reserve squad. Do you see any college with 4 players (I am not counting Loera) from a single age-bracket that have been successful in MLS? The closest thing would probably be Indiana, but even that is questionable. I just can't see how you fail to realize that Chivas (as in the Mexican team) viewed those players as being expendable.