Revolution Stadium Groundbreaking "12-24 months" Part XVI

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by MM66, Aug 23, 2018.

  1. Crooked

    Crooked Member+

    May 1, 2005
    London
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why replacing the PawSox is easier said than done

    Obviously this doesn't seem directly related to the Revs, but with the rumors of a USL team next year maybe this is being explored? It would be pretty funny to see Kraft build a stadium for our second team before the first team.
     
  2. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not directly SSS related but here's yet more evidence the MBTA is a disaster.

    On Wednesday, hundreds of Blue Line riders became tunnel walkers as they escaped the subway on foot after a power failure between two downtown stops. Alternate options were overwhelmed with T refugees while long lines of delayed travelers formed.

    It begs the question, should we be beholdent to a broken system? Or perhsps, find a plot of land closer to town that's not T accessible (commuter rail perhaps)? Just think it may make "the search" easier without that T access restriction.
     
  3. Jon Martin

    Jon Martin Member+

    Apr 25, 2000
    SE Mass
    Has the idea of McCoy as a SSS been explored? For those not familiar with greater Providence, Pawtucket and its surrounding communities including Central Falls, North Providence, and even Attleboro, MA have a large Central American community, several nearby colleges, and massive youth soccer participation. If the Revs are going to have a USL team, a renovated McCoy would seem like a strong candidate. It would also be a good laboratory for Krafty to experiment with soccer marketing.
     
  4. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Was thinking similar thoughts. There are currently 6 proposals for the property in the hands of the city but they are sealed. A USL team would be a good fit but my hunch is they want to renovate and bring in an Atlantic League team to play baseball there again. I doubt there's much of an appetite for lower division soccer.
     
  5. teskicks

    teskicks Member

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Jan 14, 2002
    Wrentham, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think it will be considered unless there is good public transportation available.
     
  6. Crooked

    Crooked Member+

    May 1, 2005
    London
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    USL has to be a better draw than Atlantic League baseball, no?
     
  7. Argyle

    Argyle Member

    Jan 31, 2002
    Plymouth, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The average attendance for the Atlantic League is between 2,000-4,000. The numbers for lower tier USL teams aren't that high.
     
  8. Crooked

    Crooked Member+

    May 1, 2005
    London
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a 36 team league compared to 8.

    USL teams not directly associated with MLS teams have done quite well. I feel like Pawtucket could average around 5k easy.
     
  9. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I dunno, Pawtucket seems a little too close to Foxboro so that a lot of the potential fans of the new team might decide to go an extra 15 miles or so to see a much higher level product. Now if the Revs were in Boston, that would be another story....
     
    Jon Martin repped this.
  10. Argyle

    Argyle Member

    Jan 31, 2002
    Plymouth, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I limited my numbers to USL Two, which is where a Revs affiliate would start, I think. A top tier USL team could certainly match Atlantic League baseball, but I don't think what would essentially be a developmental team would do so. The Revs 2 are better off playing at an existing college field in the Boston area.
     
  11. Jon Martin

    Jon Martin Member+

    Apr 25, 2000
    SE Mass
    This is where the marketing and game day experience comes in. Instead of the suffocating "Get your kicks" nonsense, Revolution could market to the college crowds and to the Central American populations directly. Providence College to McCoy - 14 minutes, Brown - McCoy 13 minutes, CCRI - McCoy 17 minutes, RIC - McCoy 20 minutes. Add Shuttle buses to the campuses, let the beer flow. loosen up the security, allow some politics like Dulwich Hamlet. As many on this board know, there was a lot of grass-roots footie culture and parking lot entrepreneurship before Krafty squelched it. If it were allowed to flourish, the games could be events. Furthermore, the colleges could use the field for their own matches to help offset the costs.
     
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  12. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know it's a new day with Burns gone into permanent exile, but the idea of the Revs to do something creative and innovative with marketing that is off the beaten path and relatively unique seems utterly preposterous, either with a secondary team or with the main team.

    Come to think of it, if they were smart, they'd be doing those things for the Revs, but we all know they aren't and won't. Arena has brought a new day with the on-field product and that is a great thing, but until we see otherwise, the business end is still run by the Krafts, and we all know that "good enough" is good enough. Having a better team will drive interest and attendance, but unfortunately, the people in charge will be happy with doing nothing to get 2,000 more butts in the seats instead of putting in a little effort to get 10,000 more.
     
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  13. Brian in Boston

    Brian in Boston Member+

    Jun 17, 2004
    MA, RI and CA
    #238 Brian in Boston, Jul 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
    Of the six plans submitted to the Rhode Island Commerce Corporation in the wake of the agency issuing a request for proposals for McCoy Stadium and Downtown Pawtucket development, two involved bringing professional soccer to the city. That said, neither envisions housing a franchise on the site of McCoy Stadium.

    Rather, both proposals call for constructing new venues in downtown Pawtucket, while the McCoy Stadium site would be redeveloped for other purposes.

    AJAX Advisors LLC has proposed bringing an "independent professional soccer team" to a newly-constructed stadium in downtown Pawtucket, while converting the McCoy Stadium site to support light industrial use. Ajax has previously been involved with Massachusetts-based development projects including Boston's Lovejoy Wharf, Westford's Brookside Mill condos, an office/industrial facility in West Bridgewater, and New England Sports Village in Attleboro.

    Meanwhile, Brett Johnson of Fortuitous Partners has proposed bringing a United Soccer League franchise to downtown Pawtucket, with the team playing in a newly-built, multi-sport stadium surrounded by ancillary development. Under Johnson's plan, the McCoy Stadium site would be redeveloped as a recreational park featuring six multi-purpose sports fields that could be used for soccer, lacrosse, and football. Johnson currently serves as co-chairman, alternate governor, and part-owner of USL Championship side Phoenix Rising.

    As for the other four proposals, two are targeting returning minor league baseball to McCoy Stadium.

    Minor League Baseball for Pawtucket - which includes current Pawtucket Red Sox Vice Chairman Mike Tamburro amongst its membership - seeks to bring an affiliated team to McCoy Stadium, most likely one of the two Class A Short-Season New York-Penn League clubs that are currently on the market (with the league-owned Batavia Muckdogs the odds-on candidate). Given affiliated minor league baseball's territorial rules, the current PawSox ownership group will continue to control the operating rights to a team in the Greater Providence market after the Triple A team has relocated to Worcester. Therefore, should the powers-that-be in Rhode Island government circles decide that they want an affiliated minor league baseball team operating out of McCoy, the Triple A team's owners are likely to be involved in the mix in one way or another. The likely scenario is that the Class A Short-Season affiliate for the parent Boston Red Sox would eventually set-up shop in Pawtucket, with the owners of the BoSox current NY-P League affiliate in Lowell being cast unceremoniously aside and having to settle for serving as farm-team for some other big league club. Of course, given that the New York-Penn League's 14 teams averaged just 2,737 fans-per-game in attendance last season, something's going to have to be done to reduce McCoy Stadium's 10,000-plus capacity to a more intimate configuration. Rumor has it that the proposal from Tamburro's group may have asked for $20 million in public funds to renovate McCoy. How that compares financially to the other bids may well determine whether affiliated ball is returning to Pawtucket.

    The other minor league baseball proposal was submitted by Frank Boulton, founder and chairman of the independent Atlantic League of Professional Baseball, as well as the owner and CEO of said league's Long Island Ducks.

    As for the pair of non-sports development proposals:

    Level Exchange - currently operating out of space within the same complex of former industrial buildings that houses The Guild, headquarters of The Isle Brewers Guild - wants to create a hub dedicated to the music industry and the arts. Their proposal calls for redeveloping McCoy Stadium to include production studios and performance venues, meeting and conference spaces, and facilities that would otherwise support such creative endeavors.

    Finally, Native Waters Investment LLC proposes building a family entertainment center and riverfront park on 25 acres of land in the I-95 corridor. How, or whether, the McCoy Stadium site would actually factor into their plans is unclear. Their proposal reportedly listed attractions including bowling alleys, a children's play park, an indoor mega-coaster, a rock-climbing wall, a zip-line course, a 7D theater, restaurants, retail outlets, and a riverboat hotel.

    Two of the individuals listed as directors and officers of Native Waters LLC - Michael J. D'Amato and Winthrop Knox - pitched plans for a similar (though, much larger) facility in Palmer, Massachusetts in September of last year. Under the name Palmer Sports Group, D'Amato and Knox proposed building a $650 million complex on a 152-acre property that had once been eyed as the site of a proposed Mohegan Sun casino/resort. D'Amato and Knox's plan in Massachusetts called for indoor and outdoor sports facilities, including basketball courts, ice rinks, and field hockey and soccer fields. There would have also been a pair of indoor water parks, with one attached to a 450-room resort hotel and reserved for use by said facility's guests.The other water park would have targeted day-trippers and people utilizing the sports facilities.

    We shall see what comes to pass in Pawtucket.
     
  14. Jon Martin

    Jon Martin Member+

    Apr 25, 2000
    SE Mass
    Great post. I'd love to see exactly where they are considering putting a SSS in Pawtucket.
     
  15. Brian in Boston

    Brian in Boston Member+

    Jun 17, 2004
    MA, RI and CA
    I'm going to presume that anyone interested enough in the prospect of building a stadium for a professional soccer team in "downtown Pawtucket" has taken the time to familiarize themselves with the saga surrounding the attempt by the PawSox to get a new ballpark built in the city. That being the case, my gut tells me that both Ajax Advisors LLC and Brett Johnson are interested in the Apex site that the PawSox were considering... at least as a strong first option. After all, said site was the first choice of the PawSox, had the backing of political leadership within the City of Pawtucket, and provided space for ancillary development. That being the case, why wouldn't the prospective soccer team owners also be high on said location?

    Again, that's just my gut instinct.
     
  16. tsb11

    tsb11 Member

    United States
    May 31, 2018
    I would watch a lot of USL soccer games in RI
     
  17. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Theres nowhere to put a team in "downtown Pawtucket" without buying out and razing a ton of property. I can't imagine anything like that would have legs. The NY-Penn baseball team in a renovated McCoy seems about right.
     
  18. Brian in Boston

    Brian in Boston Member+

    Jun 17, 2004
    MA, RI and CA
    #243 Brian in Boston, Jul 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
    The City of Pawtucket began planning to acquire the Apex site shortly after PawSox ownership officially announced the move of their ball club to Worcester. Said plan revolves around declaring the site neglected and purchasing it for redevelopment. In fact, the Pawtucket City Council went as far as voting to declare the Apex property blighted, designating the property as the centerpiece of the municipality's downtown redevelopment plan, and requiring the property's owner - Andrew Gates - to bring any proposed tenant to the city for approval.

    Further, city leadership didn't engage in such steps based solely upon their own desires. A steady stream of other stakeholders in the city - including the owners of such businesses as The Guild brewery and Collette Travel - have increasingly voiced their frustrations over what they've seen as a lack of serious effort on the part of Mr. Gates to redevelop what most consider the gateway to the city.

    Since then, representatives for Gates have repeatedly said that their client hasn't been afforded a fair chance to redevelop the property, sued the city in what was deemed a "placeholder" action that would allow them time to appeal the blight designation, and claimed that "advanced negotiations" were underway to fill the Apex building with "national and regional tenants".

    The response of city officials? They've repeatedly said that it is not their preference to simply see tenants set-up shop within the aging, dilapidated, and deteriorating Apex building. Rather, they wish to see "transformative" development of the property that is "mixed-use" in nature and incorporates "recreational opportunities".

    Bottom line? City of Pawtucket officials see the Apex property as the key to redeveloping the municipality's "downtown", they've long since lost patience with the interminable stalling tactics that Mr. Gates has engaged in while nominally attempting to develop the property on his own, and they seem prepared to acquire the 13-acre collection of properties... whether through a negotiated purchase or an eminent domain seizure remains to be seen.

    First of all, a Class A Short Season New York-Penn League team playing out of McCoy Stadium would do nothing to transform Pawtucket's downtown.

    Further, while I understand the romanticism surrounding the notion of Pawtucket landing an affiliated minor league baseball team right after its former Triple A team spurned the city, the reality is that Class A Short Season baseball would be a tough sell after 3 seasons of Double A ball and 48 seasons a step away from "The Show".

    The difference in the quality of the product on display is going to be noticeable. Gone will be the days of seeing guys a step from Major League Baseball: the rehabbing Major Leaguers... the last 15 players on the MLB team's 40-man roster... the so-called "Four-A" journeymen. As the home to a New York-Penn League team, McCoy Stadium will be filled with newly-signed draftees... second-year pros who aren't yet ready to move on... kids making the adjustment to wood bats. The 38-game Short Season A home schedule is going to be as hard to sell as the 70-game home Triple A home schedule was... if not tougher. We're talking average attendance of 3,048 (combined 2018 figures for both Class A Short Season leagues) versus average attendance of 6,600 (combined 2018 figures for both Triple A leagues). There's a reason for that.

    Rumor has it that Minor League Baseball for Pawtucket - the group with which current PawSox vice chairman Mike Tamburro is involved - is seeking $20 million in public funding for renovations to McCoy Stadium. I'm eager to know how that ask compares to the financial pitches within the other proposals submitted to the Rhode Island Commerce Corporation and City of Pawtucket.

    It would be particularly interesting to see how Brett Johnson's proposal for bringing a USL franchise to a multi-sport, downtown Pawtucket stadium surrounded by ancillary development pencils out. Under Johnson's plan, the McCoy Stadium site would be redeveloped as a recreational park featuring multi-purpose sports fields. In addition to currently serving as co-chairman, alternate governor, and part-owner of Phoenix Rising, Johnson is a Brown University graduate. One wonders how much his memories of Brown - and, by extension, knowledge of the Greater Providence area - played into his pitch?
     
  19. futbol2ot

    futbol2ot Member

    May 15, 2001
    Massachusetts
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  20. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    The comments in that article outline list some pretty clear problems with that proposal.

    If the Revs are going to put money into a 2nd stadium, they are going to want revenue-generating potential to make the investment work. Partnering with someone who already owns the land and the stadium is not likely to give the Krafts much of a revenue stream.
     
  21. Argyle

    Argyle Member

    Jan 31, 2002
    Plymouth, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There are a lot of issues with the idea, but I don't see why there would be a problem generating revenue.
     
  22. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I suppose the point is that Kraft [and others] may see the location of a sports as not a "stand alone" proposition but as one that uses the stadium as the anchor for a larger commercial project? As Patriot Place is to Gillette? They would also like to see use of the stadium by others as generating to their revenue stream... and a joint effort with Harvard would see them probably getting diddlysquat for HU events....

    Personally, I like the idea of a stadium in that location and, in terms of the sporting atmosphere, the location and the relations built with the local Boston/Cambridge audience may well be golden......
    But if Kraft wants to replicate what he has set up in Foxborough, well...then it will never happen.
     
  23. a517dogg

    a517dogg Member+

    Oct 30, 2005
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    There's no possibility to replicate Foxboro in Boston because Foxborough was empty pre-ManMall, and any place worth building an urban stadium, by definition, is not empty.
     
  24. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. Which is why the Harvard idea, or any "Boston" idea, may never ever fly.
     
    a517dogg repped this.
  25. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

    Jun 25, 2002
    Foxboro, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

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