Revolution Stadium Groundbreaking "12-24 months" Part XV

Great point. MLS is currently sifting through expansion candidates, insisting all of them new to build new stadiums. They've got one applicant in FC Cincinnati that plays in a vastly superior stadium compared to Gillette, but the league is telling them a new SSS is key for them getting the golden ticket. If it's clear the Krafts aren't even trying, other cities are liable to call BS on that demand.

If the Krafts were trying to get into the league via the expansion route, they'd barely get a second look. So they have to go through the motions. It's telling that the recent happy talk is being fed to national writers rather than local outlets which would press them for specifics.

 

So, you think Twellman is straight out lying?

 

I'd use the term BSing and let's not discount that maybe he's easily snowed.

What we know is that there's not even a rumor swirling around that the Revs are getting close on a specific urban SSS site. That sort of thing never stays quiet in Boston.

 

When someone is basing their opinions on rumors and opinions; hey, I heard that BERich is going to be the next GM of the Revs. Or the one the other day - Bale to NE Revs. And they turn out to be false, can you realistically call that person who said those things a liar or simply ill-informed? Or better yet - gullible?

 

The size and location might not have worked for the Revs, but this just shows some people can get stuff done:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/busines...ty/HeKnfbilCdmBZS7bFcHjEK/story.html#comments

 

1) he didn't report it as hearing rumors, he said that he knows of plenty of discussions in the last few years, IIRC; and 2) Twellman has an excellent track record on the reliability of his information (particularly about the Revs); and 3) he's never been shy about criticizing the team when he felt it appropriate, so I wouldn't consider him a shill (or one who is naive).

 

Well, if this was 2005 and we heard talk of this, I think we'd all be excited. But fast-forward to the cusp of 2018, and you can understand why the news is greeted with skepticism. What's the nickname of the state where Twellman is from? Oh yeah, they call it the "show me" state. Hmmmm

 

Having worked for many years in Mgmt, including running organizations. I can tell you that there is a lot of talking that goes on inside the companies; most of which never comes to fruition. I thought your initial response was a little out of character for you. Usually your responses are well thought out; so to say that someone is calling Taylor a lair because they questioned his comment, was a little strong. I like TT and I have no doubt that he's hearing the things he's commenting on, but that doesn't mean it will happen.

 

I didn't say that he was calling TT a liar, I was asking him if that's what he thought - since his opinion seemed 180 degrees from what Twellman has said recently.

I think the question is really whether the Revs really want a new stadium (and Twellman, based on the people he knows in the org. and what he's heard), is convinced they do. I am also.

I think people frequently, through frustration with this team, think there are conspiracies at work (like claiming and publicizing that they want a stadium, while really having no realistic intention of building one). I think, as is usually true, the simplest explanation is the correct one - that they want one, but haven't been able to make it happen yet.

Whether one wants to call that incompetence or not being willing to throw an unlimited amount of cash at it or holding out for the perfect deal or whatever, all of those are possibilities. But, the conjecture that they're just blowing smoke to keep MLS happy? Nah.

 

I want a Bugatti Chiron. My wife wants a pair of Saint Laurent's Crystal Embellished boots. My son wants to own the Boston Red Sox. Each of us would also like someone to shoulder the burden of paying whatever it takes to secure said objets de désire.

I don't doubt that the Krafts want a soccer-specific stadium for the Revolution within the Greater Boston urban core. I also don't doubt that they'd like a government entity to shoulder a not insignificant portion of the costs of some aspect of said facility's development and construction (tax-breaks, infrastructure improvements, etc).

I suspect that the lack of progress on the New England Revolution soccer-specific stadium front revolves around the reluctance that government agencies within the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and the City of Boston have historically shown for investing public dollars into the development of facilities that benefit privately-held pro sports franchises.

If said history is any guide, whether the Krafts likes it or not, they're probably not going to get a deal much - if at all - better than they agreed to when negotiating the state's participation in the construction of Gillette Stadium. Namely, up-front infrastructure improvements around the facility being paid for by a government entity, with the cost of said work being repaid by the Krafts through a dedicated stream of future revenues. Given the lack of progress to date on a soccer-specific stadium project, it certainly seems that the Krafts aren't in any hurry to replicate that arrangement.

 

Till the Krafts score the land and approvals to build nothing is going to happen.
Will that happen in 2018? TBD

 

And those discussions have led to nothing. In fact, there's so little going on that we're not even hearing rumors (which was my point). And every major development project in Boston starts spawning rumors when the discussions get real. Something like a new stadium isn't going to pop up out of nowhere. We're going to hear they're considering it long before it officially gets proposed.

So, whatever Twellman's heard is immaterial. Nothing notable is going on.

My guess is what he heard mostly was in connection to the deader-than-Generalissimo-Franco project at the Bayside Expo.

 

I'll disagree. The Revs are often pretty good at keeping things quiet (it's usually their development partners that let the cat out of the bag). Most of the Somerville talks, for both Brickbottom and Assembly Square, happened before they became public.

Point being, one can't assume that nothing is happening because there aren't rumors.

 

To that point I have a little theory that it could be Union Point, on the Weymouth, Abington and Rockland line. I only have three tiny facts to draw from too. #1 Being a former member of the former NAS Weymouth Reuse Committee (where Union Point is being developed), I still receive update packages for the ongoing development. In the last package, there contained a zoning change to allow a 25k stadium. However, the rendering showed a baseball stadium. But I thought of who would build a baseball stadium that large so close to Boston, and I came up empty. #2, Strangely, the new luxury box in the upper corner of Gillette was named after Union Point, which I immediately recognized last Summer but found it odd.#3 It's on the commuter line and there is a station right in the development.

Well, that's all I got.

 

Is it possible the developer put that in as a way to entice the Krafts?

 

I am going to keep on assuming, at least for a while more, that nothing is happening - because there aren't any rumors, AND because of a multiyear track record of "nothing is happening".

Meanwhile, what I wish for and hope for continues to be at odds with what I am assuming.

 

The Brickbottom plan never even got to an agreed-upon piece of land. We heard about Assembly Square shortly after they started talking. Speculation began the second IKEA pulled out of the project and it never reached the point of producing stadium porn. Both cases died in the theoretical stages and we heard plenty about them. No one keeps a stadium quiet in this region (by design, it would burn up in a ball of NIMBY without significant local massaging).

Anyway, you're making my point - the Revs aren't even close enough to float something that's going nowhere.

 

SoI know this is from a little while ago, but I just have to say, this statement just sounds like editing history, combined with perhaps a little excuse making.

First off, the fact that those markets you mentioned were very successful when they joined well after the league had been established does not mean that the markets would have been the same had they been original members like the Revs. I don't understand how you think that because Atlanta did so well this past year, it's only season of existence, then it logically must have been a better market in the mid-90's. Are the circumstances now are nearly the same as back then? Does the difference between starting a league from scratch vs joining an established league need to be explained? Is it not obvious how different it is to try to sell fans on some new league in a sport that was, at the time, seen as not being worthy of having a professional league in this country, vs selling to fans who have watched the growing league from afar for many years and had come to covet having their own team? I’m not in marketing/advertising, but I’d think it is much easier to sell a new and improved version of an existing product than it is to sell a new product that most people said would never work in this country.

Second, on top of the difference between creating from scratch vs joining an existing organization, and therefore being able to avoid all the mistakes and pitfalls made before you joined, you’re also not comparing apples to apples when it comes to fans’ perceptions of the teams and their owners. The teams that joined came in with a blank slate, and they’ve done a good job with showing that they care about building winning teams, and spending the money required to do so. Meanwhile, by the time the Seattle joined, many fans were already tired of the Revs owners and their apparent first priority being keeping costs down. There’s a reason why, nationwide, soccer fans see the Krafts as among the worst MLS owners (I would have said the worst owners, but the Crew might have that title now).

Last, as I said, this also seems a bit like excuse making. It echos ‘it’s not the Krafts’ fault that the team doesn’t seem as popular as the teams in those other cities, it’s the local soccer market’s fault, there’s nothing the Krafts can do about not having as good a market.’ This idea that 'it's just easier in those other cities' also demeans the work done by the other organizations to get to where they are now. I know there’s no way to test such a hypothesis, and you may believe differently, but I certainly believe that if the Revs had been spending on exciting players like those other teams you mentioned, if they had shown a similar strong desire to win, then the team would be far more popular locally, even without a downtown stadium.

And now that I think about it, I know we all would like a downtown stadium, and think it would help the team, but I feel like the stadium situation has been used as a crutch as well, and some have believed that the team has to carry on as it is, and can't do anything change its circumstances, to improve itself, until some glorious re-brand that will come after the owners are able to convince the city to allow the building of stupendous Elysian Field at Nirvana Place. Sorry, but the not quite perfect stadium, and the not quite perfect market, and even the not quite grass field (a factor shared with all 3 "better" markets mentioned above) are not, and have never been, what stopped the Revs from putting out better teams.

 

By far and away, the simplest explanation to all of these stadium threads and posts is: They don't really need a stadium.

 

Absolutely correct - they don't need one.

But, most people in and around MLS (including the Krafts) realize the additional opportunities that a soccer-designed, urban stadium can bring.

 

Maybe. Not sure. The thing that really stuck out to me is the big Union Point signage at Gillette, that I'm sure not too many people noticed, as the name is only really familiar to those in the South Weymouth area. I thought it odd and also I did notice the change of zoning a couple of months ago to accommodate a stadium. I addition they are putting in at least 4 outdoor soccer pitches, and to more with bubbles. They are already complete.

PS: I'm not trying to start a rumor. I'm simply sharing some observations. It could very well be nothing.

 

Fields 1 and 2 completed! Domes are up next! #UnionPointSportsComplex #FirstEverTweet pic.twitter.com/JOF1GPTHbc

— Union Point Sports Complex (@UPSportsPlex) November 10, 2017

Calm before the storm! Dome # 2 is up here @UPSportsPlex! For field rental information, please visit our website at https://t.co/dpM2AsnxXF! #UnionPointSportsComplex #UnionPointMA @UnionPointMA pic.twitter.com/8pZth8OS8u

— Union Point Sports Complex (@UPSportsPlex) December 8, 2017

 

Back in 2015, when LStar took over the lead developer role, there was noise about a stadium in their overall plans for Southfield/Union Point. 10K seats, at least as shown in plans at that time. A reference to "keeping an eye on Krafts" in this article, as well:

https://www.bizjournals.com/boston/...-the-boston-cannons-headed-to-southfield.html

 

I don't know if your information is more recent, but I did find this on the Weymouth town website:
http://www.weymouth.ma.us/sites/weymouthma/files/u481/union_point_notice_of_project_change_2.pdf

It's from February and references a 15,000 seat minor league stadium.
I'm actually wondering if they were interested in the PawSox.