News: Revolution Fire Jay Heaps

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by Mike Marshall, Sep 18, 2017.

  1. RevsRule

    RevsRule Member+

    NE Revs, LAFC
    Jun 9, 1999
    N. Eastern, Mass
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So I read the news on the Ives site. I liked Jay as a person but not a coach. Hate to see anybody fired but it had to happen. However, what pissed me on that article was the comments from Burns and Bilello about Heaps being fired. THEY CANNOT DISTANCE THEMSELVES FROM THIS MESS. They are as much to blame, most likely more, then Jay. Jay should have gotten better results but the lack of talent acquired would doom any coach. If the Kraft's don't totally clean house then Jay becomes nothing more than the latest sacrificial lamb.

    Burns and Bilello also have to go and it should also be this week. Dont let them think they survived, they shouldn't survive either.
     
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  2. VTSoccerFan

    VTSoccerFan Member+

    New England Revolution, Vermont Catamounts, NCFC
    United States
    Jun 28, 2002
    Cary, NC
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  3. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member+

    Mar 22, 2000
    Heaps was not equipped to succeed in the situation they put him in. As to the creation of the "situation", well, as you say, a lot of that is traceable back to those higher on the letterhead than was Jay.

    My comments from a year ago on this:
     
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  4. Autogolazo

    Autogolazo BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 19, 2000
    Bombay Beach, CA
    The Revs are only playoff-level in attacking positions, and then only as individuals thrown together in a non-system.

    --At GK, Cropper is below league average.

    --Our outside back situation is a total mess. Farrell has regressed.

    --Angoua is a hot-head not suited for the league.

    --Dielna and Delamea, we just don't know yet.

    --We have no true #8, and our d-mids, while numerous, are certainly average at best. Kouassi is a waste of a DP.

    --Our attackers don't fit together--Kamara is great at finishing in the air, but gets little service because....Nguyen/Rowe/Agudelo like shorter combo play on the ground...and Teal is all about direct play on the counter. Nemeth was good last time out in MLS, but we just don't know where his ability is at the moment.

    The Kamara and Nemeth signings especially look like CYA by Burns because they had past success in the league, so he can't get blamed. That and lack of a scouting department.

    Again--there's nothing wrong individually with the attacking signings, but there's no vision for how they should or could play together. I think about this every time I see Kei isolated 1 v. 1 trying to hold off a defender and do a spin move by the endline in the box. THAT'S NOT HIS GAME, that's what Nguyen or Rowe or Agudelo should be doing, while Kei crashes the back post looking for the cross.

    Defensively--most teams in MLS put together a "D" from draft picks, academy players, trades within the league, and then one crowning jewel of a CB to organize things.

    The Revs have stunk at the draft lately, Academy is weak, and they have bizarrely gone to journeymen in positions where you have to be ordering and moving around all the guys in front of you. Most of all, stability and time together is necessary to create defensive understanding, and Heaps kept throwing random bodies back there, often out of position.

    And as has been said repeatedly--ignoring Latin American talent in a salary capped league leaves the organization fighting with one hand tied behind its back on an annual basis. It's inexcusable, and it makes no sense.

    While we waste DP slots on d-mid Kouassi and CB Dielna because they played in Europe, other teams get equal or better Peruvians, Costa Ricans, Hondurans, Panamanians and Colombians in those spots for TAM or even less.

    Cap mismanagement and zero vision for how the team will play collectively on the field when acquiring players.

    Burns better go, as well.
     
  5. eric_appleby

    eric_appleby Member+

    Jun 11, 1999
    Down East
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How did Andrulis get into consideration for the job. That is very troubling.
     
  6. metoo

    metoo Member+

    Jun 17, 2002
    Massachusetts
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Sounds like you're splitting hairs a bit, if you say that the roster was good enough to get better results, which is what it means when you say Heaps should have gotten better results, then that's his fault and he had to go. If you're saying Heaps should have been gotten rid sooner, and it was within the power of Burns and/or Bilello to do so, then yes, they need to take responsibility as well, but seeing as firing a coach before his contract was up would have cost the team more against the bottom line, I wonder if anybody but the Krafts had the power to make such a decision.

    Until we get a clear picture of who is responsible for some particular thing - like how we know that Heaps clearly had responsibility for preparing the players on the roster for games - I'm leery of placing blame on anybody below the owners for that thing. Until we know that someone in the Revs has the power to spend the Krafts' money on something that isn't a required expense, and wouldn't have to be spent if the Krafts didn't want to, like, hmmm..., picking an imaginary example, replacing an expensive, brand new playing surface, I have trouble saying it's anybody but the Krafts' fault for any particular problem.
     
  7. RevsRule

    RevsRule Member+

    NE Revs, LAFC
    Jun 9, 1999
    N. Eastern, Mass
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #57 RevsRule, Sep 19, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
    As I said Ive said already, I blame Burns and Brian as much, if not more, than Jay. Jay didnt have the experience or the tools to succeed and they put him into a no win situation. If he had better players, who knows how this would have worked out? Reading Burns and Brian, thanking Jay for his service, while acting like they are above it all, is total crap and just makes me mad. They are the biggest problem.

    We need an experienced, successful coach and any coach like that would be crazy to come here without Burns and Brian gone. Ive seen a few xPlayers names thrown around. With the exception of Ralston, for get that. Especially ones that have already failed at coaching elsewhere. If no further changes happen.... all this move will do is buy the next sucker they line up a few years before he too joins the xRevs Coaching club. The pressure to clean house higher up has to be kept up.
     
  8. BrianLBI

    BrianLBI BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 7, 2002
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Classy.
     
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  9. MM66

    MM66 Member+

    Mar 9, 2009
    Brookline, MA
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    It's genius from the mind of Mike Burns.
     
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  10. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The thing I remember most about Andrulis is that when he was coaching Columbus, fans there placed a particular emphasis on the "DROOL" syllable in his name. Make what you will of that.

    I'm guessing that these ex-coaches who want to get back into the game circle around like vultures and make contacts with the higher ups at various struggling teams that look like they may be looking to make a change. I would hope they wouldn't consider him. Some of those other names are beyond ridiculous and they better not even be thinking of touching Friedel or Meola with a 38-1/2 foot pole. Have either of them been coaching at all since they stopped playing? Even the loose cannon Wynalda has at least had a couple of coaching gigs...
     
  11. Brian in Boston

    Brian in Boston Member+

    Jun 17, 2004
    MA & CA, USA
    Here's my problem with Bilello and Burns...

    Robert and Jonathan Kraft don't have the soccer knowledge - nor do they appear to possess the passion for the sport - necessary to take the New England Revolution from "MLS 1.0" to "MLS 4.0". They simply don't. As a result, it's incumbent upon the knowledgeable and passionate personnel amongst the Revolution employees - particularly, members of the management team - to step-up and convince the Krafts of what has to be done in order to move the franchise forward.

    Bilello and Burns? I've seen nothing to indicate that they aren't just a pair of guys going along to get along. They're simply thrilled to have the jobs that they fill and are willing to keep their heads down and toe the party line in order to keep said positions. Seriously... is there anyone who will actually argue that either Bilello or Burns has accomplished enough in his respective management career with the Revolution to convince any other team in Major League Soccer to hire them for the same position? Maybe - MAYBE - they might be able to get an expansion team to take a flyer on them. Frankly, I don't even believe that to be the case.

    Still, they'd be hard-pressed to not have more knowledge about and passion for the sport of soccer than the Krafts possess. Therefore, it is incumbent upon them - as the senior members of the Revolution management team beneath the Krafts - to make their voices clearly heard when it comes to trying to convince the stewards of this MLS franchise to change course with regard to the team's operational direction. Does anyone truly believe that Bilello and Burns have done that? That they've attempted to shake-up the status quo as to how things are done with the Revolution? That they've deigned to challenge their employers' notions of what constitutes a well-run, competitive, best-practices, benchmark operation in Major League Soccer?

    At some point, if Bilello and Burns care so much about the state of the Revolution - indeed, the state of the league and the sport of soccer in this country - than they need to be willing to run the risk of drawing the ire of their employers by speaking out about what is holding this club back. They need to be willing to lay their jobs on the line while standing up for what they believe in.

    But, hey... maybe all they believe in is collecting a paycheck and getting to say that they work in professional sports. Which is fine. That's their choice to make. However, that also makes them a significant part of the problem in the New England Revolution (dis)organization.

    Personally, I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror. And I speak from experience. I've twice felt so strongly about mismanagement within organizations that I've worked for that I've put my position at risk by speaking up. In fact, in one instance, I was told in no uncertain terms that if I didn't like the way things were being done, I could leave. Which I did.

    Bottom line? It's time that someone in the Revolution organization cared enough to shake things up, because clinging to the status quo is getting this team nowhere.
     
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  12. MM66

    MM66 Member+

    Mar 9, 2009
    Brookline, MA
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I agree with your top-line statement, though I'm going to quibble a bit with some of the particulars below.

    This is my main disagreement. I think Cropper has done some outstanding work late in the season (can't blame him for last week). To my eyes, he's stepped up his command in the box. One thing I'm liking about him is his distribution. Moves it quickly with his feet and he's got some real accuracy on his long balls.

    100% this. Width is essential in the modern game. The next manager has to decide whether to play 3 or 4 in the back. If it's 3, then maybe Farrell has a role and you look for MF width. If it's 4, then it's time to move Farrell, and Tierney if anyone will take him.

    Angoua seems symptomatic of the team's general dysfunction. He's clearly got distribution skills that go to waste with this squad. I feel like we're watching his brain explode over how rudimentary the teams tactics are.

    Delamea fits a more basic system better, but he might not fit if they try a more sophisticated/skilled approach. Dielna, I haven't gotten a handle on him either. It's because the system's so busted I'm not sure we've see anything close to his full capabilities. He's a willing defender.

    Kouassi's been a disaster. That's down to terrible luck on his knee injury as much as anything else, but he's shown he's not capable of running a midfield. I like Scottie's game. He's often trying to organize amidst the chaos, which sometimes comes off as odd since the team has become increasingly direct.

    A big factor in the midfield struggles is the lack of width. Everything gets congested and there's no outlet.

    The lack of cohesion is glaring. I think this is where Heaps deservedly took heat. There's plenty of goals in this roster, but they tend to come off individual plays rather than flow from any sort of team dynamic. Bunbury's thrived of late as the race car in a Route One attack, but that's been about it in terms of a striker meshing with a system.

    The big question with the Revs is what kind of team do you want to be? And, per what you noted, Burns doesn't seem remotely capable of providing an answer. If he sticks around it's just going to be more pieces that don't necessarily fit any plan.

    Theoretically you're right, but the Revs have been so horrible with Latin players it might take a sea change before they can effectively tap those markets. For instance, say you bring in a kid with a robust short passing game. Making the ball do the work is an alien concept to half the team. The kid might be dealing with Angoua-style rage before long. That's before we even touch team and regional cultural factors. Chicago went Dutch to a large extent. Montreal's been big on Italians.

    Going Latin worked brilliantly for Atlanta, but that's a team built by Bielsa with a specific style in mind.
     
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  13. RevsRule

    RevsRule Member+

    NE Revs, LAFC
    Jun 9, 1999
    N. Eastern, Mass
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Im saying that Heaps should have been able to win more games but didnt and its because he is not a good manager. We have some talent and should have done more however, in a way its a blessing or this may not have happened. It needed to happen...just 1 season too late though.

    On the second part .....I think you're dreaming if you think we will ever know:

    1) Did Bilello have the money and permission to buy players? or was he being held back by the owners?

    2) If the money was there, was it Burns inability to sign players the problem?

    3) Who targeted the players to be attempted to sign? Was the Burns? Heaps? somebody else? maybe nobody cause we're not signing anybody

    Ive been following this team since day 1 and these questions have often been asked and the answers have never been known. I have no reason to think anything will change on that front now. If Bilello and Burns dont go.... nothing will really change
     
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  14. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's always been the barometer--will someone else hire them if they were available. Look around at various coaches who have had even moderate success. They lose a job in one place, but someone else hires them. Because that's what they do.

    Take a guy like Tim Lieweke. He is the exact polar opposite of our B&B duo. He has a vsion, strong opinions and a will to carry it out. If he isn't an expert in doing what needs to be done, he will hire someone else who is an expert. Sometimes that ruffles feathers. Sometimes people like that will piss off the wrong people and lose their job. But people like that always get another one, which often turns out better.

    We need a guy like that. But we will never get a guy like that until the Krafts decide that they want the Revs to be as successful as the Patriots have been, and are willing to take the necessary steps to make it happen.
     
  15. rkane1226

    rkane1226 Member+

    Apr 9, 2000
    Club:
    Stade Brestois 29
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I suggest Marcelo Bielsa

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcelo_Bielsa

    He's certain to have quit Lille by November. I doubt he'll ever hold a practice here. He'll quit by Christmas, after being hired in November! But it would be a fun month.

    Or....

    How about Wynalda as Head coach with Harks as an assistant?

    These are both Jokes of course. I just hope it is someone who will challenge standard operating procedures.
     
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  16. FoxBoro 143

    FoxBoro 143 Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The sad part, is while it surely won't happen, it's not the craziest suggestion ever. He's already on the payroll, he's been with the club forever so he HAS to know the league and team!
     
  17. swedust

    swedust Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    Someone with the backbone to shake things up, who won't back down to the Krafts, who is not currently with another club, who has won big games in Gillette....



    [​IMG]
     
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  18. REV IT UP

    REV IT UP Member

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Jul 12, 2004
    San Francisco
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So whats the over-under on Burns not filling our needs in the coaching position until the summer transfer window?
     
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  19. Andy_B

    Andy_B Member+

    Feb 2, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great post!

    I just want to point out that having an owner that has soccer knowledge and/or passion for the game is not necessary to succeed as evidenced by what Arthur Blank has put together down in Atlanta.

    He found good people and gave them the funds needed to build infrastructure from the ground up. He coupled that huge off field investment by giving other funds to his people to target strong young players to get the team off and running. He did not fall into the trap of pandering to local foreign communities or looking for big name players.

    What Blank did not do and what the Karft's are VERY prone to do is that he never ever waited to "check all the boxes". Barely 1 out of 100 MLS fans could have named Josef Martinez last year but that did not stop them from spending good money to get him on a transfer fee.

    Investing to grow instead of waiting until profits become big enough to spend is what has constantly separated the Revs from other more ambitious teams. We warned people years ago that eventually the lack of off field infrastructure was going to catch up with the team. This is only going to get worse as other teams are pouring money into their development facilities while we get excited for a new patch of grass that the Pats don't current need.
     
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  20. Andy_B

    Andy_B Member+

    Feb 2, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have to be honest, I am not sure how firing Burns and Biello will help even if I know they must go.

    Even if both are fired and we get two brand new people in, the only real effect that can be felt is whether they do a better job identifying players under the same budgetary constraints.

    I am sure it is going to made abundantly clear to any interviewee that no money can be spent until certain budgets lines are hit at the bottom line and even then it needs to be scrubbed and reviewed for ever.

    The next two poor souls are likely going to be under the exact same constraints that Biello and Burns were.

    Yes there is a chance a new hire will do better but unless the entire thought process changes in terms of the finances specifically to player procurement and to off field infrastructure, there is a decent chance that things will be pretty much the same as always.

    I guess with a WC coming up next year, there is always the hope (assuming the US even qualifies) that a US player scores a big goal and ticks some of the boxes needed to spend some money but they will still wait to see if another MLS team is interested first.
     
  21. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Welcome back Bob.
     
  22. RevsRule

    RevsRule Member+

    NE Revs, LAFC
    Jun 9, 1999
    N. Eastern, Mass
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #72 RevsRule, Sep 20, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
    This has always been the question on this team, Are they being blocked from spending money from above or is it just Bilello/Burns screwing up?

    Maybe the Kraft's will change things? Recognize that things are now different in this league and that you can't compete with college drafts and a couple of Academy grads My dream is that they hire some top people, for the purpose of turning this franchise around. They in turn hire a real, experienced and proven coach that has the power and knowledge to develop a winning team. We then generate some excitement for the team and start to average 30K+ in the stands and it becomes fun again, to go to games. That's what could happen if the Kraft's open their eyes.

    Heaps went out and burned no bridges on the way. His coaching days are most likely over now. I really wish he could leak it out what is really happening with this team so that those of us that still care have some clue why we dont sign quality players and why we always have less than a full roster. Let us know Heaps... what is really going on here? Leak it out, you dont have to put your name on the facts, just tell somebody else and let them leak it. You wont be back and with your record.... coaching is dead for you. This would be the best thing you could do for this franchise at this point
     
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  23. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    I know they are jokes, but Wynalda's name has been floated: he's an interesting guy who knows the game, but he's also a nutcase. I wouldn't want him trying to navigate the frustrations of doing this job.
    Thanks. Haven't really been gone, just pretty discouraged really. I didn't like the hire of Heaps when it happened, but wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and see if he could grow into the job. I think he did quite well up to a point, then he hit his ceiling - without fresh ideas/insight, staying the same means backsliding (because you're predictable and opponents have adjusted to what we did well), and that's what happened.
    Agree on much, but I really like Kouassi (despite that weak red card). He shows a level of class that Caldwell and Koffie don't. I don't understand why he's played so little this year - Heaps has seemed to prefer Koffie. :confused:

    We don't have "real" wings and that's a problem with width, as you say.

    And, yes, we are a mish-mash of styles and talents. We've collected players, not "built" a team.

    It would be an uphill battle to integrate latin players, but it's a huge source of talent to be ignoring. And, last two coaches have failed to integrate the few talented LA players they've been given.

    To me, a good attack needs a healthy dose of unpredictability - and that's what we lack. Nguyen has it, but no one else really. The passes that Atlanta used to slice through us comprised a master lesson on how to expose a defense. We don't have the vision, skill or understanding to do things like that.
     
  24. metoo

    metoo Member+

    Jun 17, 2002
    Massachusetts
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    I think it's a bit harsh to say you can't stand that people would do the jobs they were hired to do, or saying they're somehow to blame for the fact that the Krafts have the attitude that they have for the sport. Yes, this is a passion for us fans, but for the people within the organization, it's going to be a job first, a passion second, they do have families to support, and that is obviously going to come first for them. I myself have problems with things to do with how my company is run, and I do what I can through the channels I have access to, but call me a coward if you want, I'm not going to go make some big stink, or go up to the president when I see him in the hall, and risk my job, to try to get them to change - I need my job.

    Perhaps the biggest problem we have is the lack of knowledge about what goes on inside the company, we obviously can't say for sure who does what or who says what, so we're left to speculate on what goes on. And if we're speculating, for me, while I'll grant it's not beyond the realm of possibility, I think it's highly unlikely that the soccer people agree with decisions like not to have a scouts, not to have a full roster, not to have a B team, and so on, which would require the owners to spend more money. For me, I'd bet people really do try to say what they can, but I think it's a bit much to say it's "incumbent" on them to put their passion for the team and league ahead of their passion for supporting their own families. If employees aren't empowered by their bosses to do such things, I don't blame the employees, I blame the bosses.

    So regarding the general point about having some kind of visionary in charge, would I love to see the Revs hire some dynamic soccer guy who has the ability, and more importantly, the power, to bring this organization up to the level of other top teams in the league? Of course, I would, and in fact I think this is basically what the Pats have, though by saying that doesn't mean I think the visionary for the Revs would have to be a coach as well as holding the other jobs. Furthermore, would I be sad if Burns and/or Bilello lost their jobs as part of this change? Not at all. But it's up to the Krafts to decide they want to change the organizational philosophy, and grant someone the power to run the organization relatively similar to the power they've granted to Belichick, it's not the fault of their employees that the Krafts have shown no interest in doing that.
     
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  25. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    The goal of the Krafts is to spend as little as possible while not getting threatened by the league. This is and will be an impossible job until the krafts sell or are forced out. Too bad
     

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