Redshirt rule?

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by ytrs, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. ytrs

    ytrs Member

    Jan 24, 2018
    Can someone educate me on the current redshirt rule in soccer, please? If a player plays a limited number of minutes in a single game at the beginning of the season, can they still redshirt (assuming they are not injured). So much information out there about pointy football. Players can play up to 4 games now and still redshirt with the new rules. But I see nothing on soccer under new rules.
  2. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    #2 Cliveworshipper, Sep 10, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
    Technically a redshirt is when you choose to sit out a season voluntarily. To exercise that, you have to have played NO minutes ( not even one second) of outside competition, excluding scrimmages and exhibitions. You get one of those and it counts toward your five year clock. You may play exhibitions with the team and not have it count as playing a season.

    So if it was a scrimmage or exhibition, she could redshirt.
    If it was a regular season game , the season counts towards the four years of eligibility and five year clock. There are exceptions, mostly related to hardships.

    (Sections 12.8.3 and after)

    The other type of what is often called a redshirt is an injury hardship exception or other hardship exception ( illness, death in the family, taking care of a parent, etc.). To be eligible for that, the athlete can only have played less than 30% of the schedule and only in the first half of the season. It appears you are not asking about that. This hardship “redshirt” requires a doctor’s letter and approval by various committees. It isn’t automatic.

    And there are numerous other criteria, including National team play, military service and Missions, but you also can’t have played any of the season
  3. ytrs

    ytrs Member

    Jan 24, 2018
    thank you. this is what I thought based on what I found online. However, how does pointy football players get to play in up to 4 complete games in a 12 game season, and still get to redshirt under the new rules ... yet no one in the other sports cried foul to this disparate treatment?
  4. Val1

    Val1 Member+

    Mar 12, 2004
    MD's Eastern Shore
    Arsenal FC
    I dunno.

    Perhaps because football is a much rougher game?
  5. Wildcatter

    Wildcatter Member

    Sep 9, 2018
    football coaches and conferences made the proposal to the NCAA and all the schools voted it into existence.
  6. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    #6 Cliveworshipper, Sep 10, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
    The ncaa has a long history of disparate treatment when it comes to revenue sports and especially the BCS.

    When you say that schools voted it itnto existence, keep in mind that the P5 conferences by ncaa bylaw control 60% of all voting, membership on committees, election of officers, and enforcement committees.

    That they voted in their own interest is hardly a surprise. Get used to it.

    I’m not convinced it will benefit players who hope to benefit in later years, especially if they try to transfer. In that case, it looks like the player will have to sit for two years while the five year clock runs.
    Coaches will love it. They have a reserve squad they can now insert any time they choose without burning a year.

    And don’t expect the feds to enforce title IX during this administration.
  7. Glove Stinks

    Glove Stinks Member

    Jan 20, 2014
    Chelsea FC
    I don’t believe this is still true. My understanding is that under title 9 it must be equitable. Don’t know the details
  8. ytrs

    ytrs Member

    Jan 24, 2018
    My question has nothing to do with injuries or physicality.

    Concern is a soccer player plays in his/her first game that is a blowout, and coach doesn't player them again. Coach burns the players eligibility on 20 minutes of action. A football player can play 25% of the season, and they can still redshirt.
  9. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    #9 Cliveworshipper, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
    There is no school in America that meets title IX statutes on equity.


    Spend a week or two on this database and tell me which school meets equity standards

    Mind you, this database doesn’t include things like football stadiums, indoor practice facilities, free computers for football players, hookers, stc.

    They play the “see how we are improving?” Game.

    Your last sentence sums it up. Trouble is,it’s all in the details.

    As to having to sit 2 years if you transfer, Read this:

    Then tell me how it helps Taj Griffin.
  10. Wildcatter

    Wildcatter Member

    Sep 9, 2018
    in soccer if you step on the field for even 1 second of a game (other than exhibition) you have used that year.

    Unless you get some type of injury or have another hardship that you can file for.
  11. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Jul 20, 2017
    I agree that it is absurd to have such a disparity between football redshirt rules and those for soccer and, I assume, other sports. IMO the football rule is too lenient and the soccer/other sport rule too harsh.
    ytrs repped this.
  12. espola

    espola Member+

    Feb 12, 2006
  13. espola

    espola Member+

    Feb 12, 2006
    I hadn't heard that before. Is it in here somewhere? --
  14. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    #14 Cliveworshipper, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019

    It’s all through the manual. Start with 4.3.4 Weighted voting

    Not only do the P5 schools get 4 votes each, but the P5 conference commissioners get 4 votes as well.
    The weighted voting percentage works out to 60%, so the 125 or so P5 schools have the majority vote on all legislation. Representation of officers also follow the pattern.

    By the time you get to about section 5.2, you’ll also see that on matters pertaining to bowl championship football, only the bowl championship conferences get to vote at all
    The redshirt provision would have fallen under this area.
    Look for the phrase Division Dominant provisions

    It’s no accident that it takes a 60% vote in the general session to override division dominant provisions. (2/3 in some matters)

    And just look at any committee membership list for verification that the 60% ratio holds true.

    It includes, BTW, the tournament selection committees. The next time the pundits debate who should have gotten into a tournament, keep in mind which candidates were P5 schools.
  15. espola

    espola Member+

    Feb 12, 2006
    The immediately following paragraphs --

    (b) Representatives [other than those noted in (d) and (e) below] from the following conferences and the conference commissioner representative of these conferences shall have two votes each: (1) American Athletic Conference; (4) Mountain West Conference; and (2) Conference USA; (5) Sun Belt Conference. (3) Mid-American Conference;

    (c) Representatives from the following conferences and the conference commissioner representatives of these conferences shall have one vote each: 4/17/19 25 (1) America East Conference; (12) Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference; (2) Atlantic 10 Conference; (13) Missouri Valley Conference; (3) Atlantic Sun (ASUN) Conference; (14) Northeast Conference; (4) Big East Conference; (15) Ohio Valley Conference; (5) Big Sky Conference; (16) Patriot League; (6) Big South Conference; (17) Southern Conference; (7) Big West Conference; (18) Southland Conference; (8) Colonial Athletic Association; (19) Southwestern Athletic Conference; (9) Horizon League; (20) The Summit League; (10) The Ivy League; (21) West Coast Conference; and (11) Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference; (22) Western Athletic Conference.

    (d) The two designated faculty athletics representatives [see Constitution 4.3.1-(f)] shall have one vote each.

    (e) Student-athlete representatives shall have one vote each.

    b, c, d, and e taken together indicate to me that the Power 5 conferences have less than 50% of the weighted votes. 4x5=20, 2x5=10, 1x22=22, plus some number of faculty and student representatives each with one vote. That's a total of more than 50 votes, of which the Power 5 has 20.
  16. Glove Stinks

    Glove Stinks Member

    Jan 20, 2014
    Chelsea FC
    This is feeling like a rabbit hole thread
    Can someone give specifics to red shirt rules as to women’s soccer
  17. Wildcatter

    Wildcatter Member

    Sep 9, 2018
    soccer is simple. if you play one second of a match then you used your year.

    If you didnt play AT ALL you could receive a red shirt year.
  18. espola

    espola Member+

    Feb 12, 2006
    With exceptions for documented injuries.
  19. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The basic rule is this, from the document linked below: Intercollegiate Competition. A student-athlete is considered to have engaged in a season of intercollegiate competition when he or she competes in an athletics event involving any one of the conditions characterizing intercollegiate competition (per Bylaw 12.02.6).​

    However, under certain circumstances, there's what's called a hardship waiver. This is what determines whether a player on a team gets an additional year or additional years of eligibility. You can find the hardship waiver rule, at page 88: 2019 NCAA Division I Manual. Naturally, the rule is complicated.

    Thus, unless you can get a hardship waiver, if you participate in one event of intercollegiate competition during a year, you have used that year of eligibility.
  20. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    You got them in the second post. Direct quote from the D1 manual..

    If you want more, download the manual. Bylaws 12 and 14 will do
  21. espola

    espola Member+

    Feb 12, 2006
    I didn't get a response, so I had to do it myself, digested below --

    4.3.1 The Division 1 Council is composed of 40 members.
    4.3.1 (a) There is one member from each of the 32 conferences named in 4.2.1 (a), the section that defines the membership of the Division 1 Board of Directors.
    4.3.1 (b) The Power 5 select one more member.
    4.3.1 (c)The wannabe 5 (the rest of the FBS conferences) select one more member.
    4.3.1 (d) A group of 13 conferences selects one more member.
    4.3.1 (e) A group of 11 conferences selects one more member.
    4.3.1 (f) two faculty athletic representatives.
    4.3.1 (g) two student-athlete representatives.

    Thus the Power 5 has 6 representatives, each of whom has 4 votes under the weighted voting scheme described in 4.3.4, or 24 votes total out of the 64 votes defined in the section (4x6) + (2x6) + 24 + 2 + 2. That's 37.5%.

    Somebody please check my math.

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