Lopetegui’s tactics didn’t make us concede 4 goals it was utter stupidity by our defenders and goalie that did it, you can coach as well as you’d like but there is no winning when your defense has a night off like that.
Well, Zidane lost his first derby 1-0 in normal time at the Bernabeu. Lope would have got a point if it was 90 mins. Also ZZ had Casemiro on the bench and he started playing DM after that game. Benitez drew 1-1 against Atletico at Calderon and I don't think he was involved in another derby. 4 goal defeat was against Barca. Dunno what you are getting at. Navas was below average today btw. Maybe you should point that out first before coming up with comparisons that doesn't make sense.
We got battered at Spurs last year and came away with 3-1 defeat. Lost Clasico 3-0 at home in 90 mins.Meanwhile La Decima match was super competitive and Atletico ended up losing 4-1 in ET. This is still pre season stage where players are not 100% physically. I think the stat about Lope conceding 4 goals is blown out of proportion without context. If this is going to be our worst performance in a big game, I don't mind it at all. As we have a good chance to win without schoolboy defensive errors and a taller GK.
Simply pointing out that Lopetegui had a very bad start.. Mayoral over Vjr? Come on..why Modric for Asensio and not Isco, who everyone was saying was having a bad game .. This was a final so a tie under 90 mins is pointless.. Different mindset and approach to the game than a regular La liga match. And trying to throw dirt on Navas with some unrealistic and fabricated standards to excuse the defense from these goals is ridiculous. In SA that first goal is know as a fusilaso, which literally means being shot by a firing squad where there is no chance of survival.. in futbol it is referred to when the goalie takes a point blank rocket shot with little to zero chance in saving it. And not only that but all keepers will bend their knees intuitively when they are about to save a direct shot like that.
For the record, Tim Howard was on TNT and he said Navas' positioning was all wrong, moved off the line way too early and left his post. According to him, had he stayed in his position, he would have easily saved that shot. Frankly, I agree completely with that assessment.
Pretty much all my posts have mentioned defensive ******** ups. Navas has some great qualities, but also some disadvantages due to height. Seen Neuer and DDG deny the first goal using their frame quite a few times. I really think Courtois could have saved 1st and third goals. I'd take Navas over Coutois in 1v1 situations with an open goal, but latter's reach will be advantageous for us in couple of goals conceded today. Navas got really close to stopping Saul's goal. Missed by an inch or two if you watch slow Mo replay. Courtois is 5 inches taller. His reach helped him keep out that Neymar shot in the world cup. Same with Mandzukic goal in CL final which Navas could have stopped if he was slightly taller. Not his fault, but precisely why I want Courtois to start. I'd have Navas start in CL group stages and CDR.
If what you are saying is true Courtois would have saved this..1m26s and this..1m56s and based on what we know from Navas and how his reflexes are so good.. he will most likely would have saved this..2m26s
I always said that a club cannot have two good keepers on the same team.. It should be a clear cut situation. I do not want my keeper to be distracted by anything outside the actual playing field. Courtois is Navas' distraction and Navas is too..... uncertainly with Kiko, Lunin and Zidane kid.
When Zidane and Ronaldo left, the reaction of most people went kinda like this: we lost two incredibly important figures in the club, so now we have to do everything we can to keep everybody else, because we can't take any more blows to the threepeat team core. Yet, this is precisely what I advocated against. Tonight the lack of reference point in attack was obvious with Ronaldo gone. On the other hand, Lopetegui's high intensity football requiring complete collective sync resulted with glitches both on offense and defense. What we are trying to do now is continue with business as usual, as if nothing changed. We are trying to play in a different way with the same team, whose main goalscorer left, and who is used to having different structure: a front three that does nothing but attack, a midfield that plays the ball out and runs with it using individual skill. Now we have players like Benzema, Bale and Asensio who are supposed to be scorers when they have been trained to help Ronaldo score as their main task for years. We have them try to play a collective passing game along with the midfielders and press together constantly, which is something they never did, getting them exhausted quickly. This is why I wanted wholesale changes. These players were great in Zidane's system, when everything revolved around Ronaldo. Now they are asked to do something else, after years and years of not doing it. Would have been easier to sell Bale and Benzema and get forwards who fit Lopetegui's vision and don't have the burden of playing a different role over the years. As I said before, I don't care if we end up trophyless this season because we are in a transition. But if its a transition year, we should do it right. That means overhaul the team and use the year for gelling and adapting. Instead, we are in some sort of purgatory. That means no evolution of the team and lost time. Personally, I am also skeptical of Lopetegui's ability to get what he needs for this team from Florentino. Its different when Zidane asks for a player (or Wenger, thats why I wanted him), there is that galactico coach reputation that makes it more difficult for the President to refuse his demands.
to me last season was the transition year.. and this one is extending it. Most of the subs that we have today were brought in last summer when the fantastic B team was dismantled.
Lope is getting sacked before christmas .if we play like this. Please do not jump and say that this match is irrelevant yes I know it but I am referring to tactics and defense
Yeah anyone freaking out after this game needs help... It's a glorified friendly. With that said... A few random thoughts: After Asensio and Casemiro came off we reverted offensively to last season's aimless-crossing-over-and-over-ball that I hoped we'd be leaving behind. I love Carvajal but he looks awful and Odriozola is better than he is right now. I thought Isco actually played fairly well in the midfield role creating opportunities for his teammates and releasing them into space. Navas should've had that 1st goal. Mayoral and Lucas can't be your attacking options off the bench.
Why are people complaining about our fantastic B team getting dismantled?? Don't you guys both the manager and club for these players being on the bench?
Not complaining, at least not on that post. I was mentioning it because that is when, to me, the transition began.. It was not this summer.
I agree about that part. Last year was the transition. This season is just an extension due to the failures of last summer. My point was when things were going great, people were complaining.. saying we aren't giving certain players enough minutes and how we need to sell. Well look at us now.
Yep.. there is a group of fans who think grooming young, cheap talent is a priority over quality and experience and they are always hopefull that every young kid we bring will become a star.. That is a lot of wishful thinking if you ask me.
I think this is a bit of an overreaction; I personally saw a very good response from the team to his style for 65 minutes or so, especially from Bale, Benzema, and Asensio. Tailed off when the latter came off. Let's see if it's because of fatigue due to lack of fitness or a sign of things to come, I think it's too early to tell.
I think the current personel from the top is simply not built to sustain this type of football. Being gassed at 2/3 of the match with the season just starting is indicative. Maybe I'm wrong, and I would be glad if its the case because this is the right approach. Just not sure we have the right guys for it. Imagine Icardi instead of Benzema, Salah instead of Bale and Hazard instead of Asensio... Damn, that would have been an actual revolution, with everything to play for, and they would do the job asked of the BBA to which they aren't used to in a perfect fashion. Personally I don't think Asensio is good enough to be a key player for this team. He belongs in the rotation IMO.
I feel like people are complaining just to complain. I was very impressed with our showing right up until Asensio and then Casemiro went off. Ramos+Varane+Marcelo+Carvajal don't act like donkeys and we win this match easily. They couldn't do that so now its "Lope will be fired by Christmas". Bench needs addressing absolutely. The Courtois/Navas debate has bored me and the season hadn't even started yet. I don't think there was ever a real competition about who #1 spot eventually goes to(TC) but Keylor did himself no favors today. Lunin needs to be loaned out to get experience so he can come back and be a solid #2. The Tibo/Keylor debate will go on until Keylor eventually leaves.
Lupe stil thinks this squad is good enough with Mayoral and without a replace to CR7 and Kova? if I it remained like this, he will be the next Bentiez or Camacho .
Lope in presser : I don't think there will be my changes in squad. Emilio Butragueno : We said we're happy with current squad before the match. One match doesn't change anything.
When Florentino was going out and buying the best young talent available, we were all cheering him on for being proactive and thinking long term. If we want to see their vision come to fruition, we must wait, tune out all the noise and be content with not winning everything. Maybe even settle for mediocrity (because that's ok if we groom young talent). Let's watch how this season unfolds. Our last "reaction" to things falling apart was hiring Zidane. Maybe something good will come out of it if this becomes a catastrophe? At least if shit hits the fan, it wasn't an expensive failure, right?