Rafael Santos Borré - News & comments

Discussion in 'Colombians Abroad' started by Tio Nicci, Mar 23, 2015.

  1. pibe10

    pibe10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 30, 2005
    Petach Tikva, Israel
    Club:
    Atletico Nacional
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I really hope Queiroz won't ignore him. At the moment this guy deserves to be in the squad. At the moment he could actually help Atletico Madrid.
     
  2. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    He needs to get more consistent. Especially if he wants to go back to Europe.
     
  3. pibe10

    pibe10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 30, 2005
    Petach Tikva, Israel
    Club:
    Atletico Nacional
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I don't know, he seems pretty consistent to me and under a wonderful coach like Gallardo. Of course that Europe is another level, but in River I think he is one of the best. Just needs to improve his finishing.
     
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  4. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    The inconsistent finishing is important and is part of the reason he is not on the Colombian team (or in Europe) that you think he deserves to be on.
     
  5. pibe10

    pibe10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 30, 2005
    Petach Tikva, Israel
    Club:
    Atletico Nacional
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    With all due respect, besides Duvan and Morelos, we don't have consistent strikers. That's not the reason he is not in the squad. He was in the last call up. Queiroz has his decisions but in general I think he should be there along with Falcao, Muriel, Duvan and Morelos.
     
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  6. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I think it is a reason he is not on the squad. He has only been called up once by Queiroz and he missed the opportunities he had when he started. Now he was not called after that.
    You can also go and ask the River Plate fans how they feel about his inconsistent accuracy when it comes to shots on target.

    I think generally he won't be there along with the guys you list unless he starts scoring goals consistently.
     
  7. pibe10

    pibe10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 30, 2005
    Petach Tikva, Israel
    Club:
    Atletico Nacional
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Of course he needs to scoring goals consistently. I just don't think it's the reason since I mentioned you other strikers (and forgot roger) who don't score consistently also. Maybe there's another reason, would be very surprised if this will be the only reason. Anyway, I like his hard work at River.
     
  8. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    As I and others around here have mentioned it seems like Queiroz simply views Santos Borre as a #9.
    He says he likes Roger because he can play both wings. He played Morelos as a supporting striker to Zapata against Korea. Muriel is also someone he likes on the wings or as a supporting striker.
    If the manager experiments and puts Santos Borre in next to Zapata that would be something I would love to see, but not sure it will happen.
    If he strictly pigeon holes him as a target man role he may not get more chances unless he starts scoring more consistently.
     
  9. pibe10

    pibe10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 30, 2005
    Petach Tikva, Israel
    Club:
    Atletico Nacional
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I also believe thay he'll be used as a 9 but unlike Duvan, no one can play as a lone striker for us. Whether he will score or not, he'll be much more effective next to another striker like he is in River.
     
  10. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Was rumoured in argentina, that Colombia and Argentina reached and agreement with river and boca of not to called up no player, to be keep it focus for the clasico.

    For example in argentina wasnt called neither armani and andrada or plaacios.....it makes sense that fabra would also be called up ahead of mojica....i think borre was part of this deal.

    If queioz just dicarded borre becuase the definition against venezuela....would be moron..............a good coach is the less that see in a footballer. his movements and constant danger in minutes played were good.


    I know some haters here make party because of not being called or the oprtunities wasted agisnt argentia...........but the true is that he is top scorer of argentina in this moment and of river in this season
     
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  11. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    #586 HomietheClown, Oct 10, 2019 at 9:17 AM
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019 at 9:24 AM
    Rumors are rumors. And Carrascal was called for the Sub23 so it makes it a bit difficult for me to believe but I will admit that it could be a factor.

    No one made the argument it is only because of definition against Venezuela. I have said many times that if it comes down to Morelos or Santos Borre one of them will be left off and this time seems to be Santos Borre. I have also mentioned that he has been very inconsistent for River and has only scored during the run of play this past weekend recently. (The others were penalties. ) That is taken into account too by any manager dumb or smart.

    And finally it has nothing to do with hate. It has to do with personal observations and opinions of what he can provide and how he will be used.
     
  12. J-Mezzy

    J-Mezzy Member+

    Oct 14, 2013
    Orlando
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I'm on both sides here. Like @pepinointer , i like Borre and his skillset and hope he can get more opportunities with the NT and Quieroz shouldn't blacklist him over one game.

    Having said that, his performance against Venezuela hurt him.a lot. It's ok to have a bad game, but the worst thing you can do as a player is confirm stereotypes about you. Cardona can't come and get a red card for he will confirm that he is a hot head. James can't be lazy defending in Madrid for it would give Zidane a reason to say that's why he doesn't play. Borre could have had a quiet game...maybe even gotten a red card and he would have been better off than reaffirming the belief that he is a pecho frio.

    If a coach has doubts about your finishing and calls you despite of it....and then u go on to miss some sitters...well then said coach might say i was right..never mind this guy.


    Borre needs and deserves more opportunities but if/when given, he can't lay and egg like that again
     
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  13. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    #588 pepinointer, Oct 10, 2019 at 10:26 AM
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019 at 10:36 AM
    I think if he wasnt called up as fabra and campuzano is because the agreement announced in argentina media between river and boca with the federation.

    "miss sitters" is important for fans and for journalists that bully players,,,,,,,,,,,,coaches is what less care, they value player beyond certian plays, not becuase miss a sitter, scouting of a player goes beyond of that.........borre created a lot of those chances and just put in position to score (that is what a football expert or scout value).............that journalist and fans bitch defintion of players as an skill of forward........not coaches...........is like higuain wasnt stopped to be called up becuase that sitters.......when his quality is notable and his contribution in his clubs is always there.......or the same benzema.

    for that belief that definition "rodallega was better than falcao and messi in u 20"...only believed by some fans and journalists that sitters or score like poacher can measure quality.............yeah then we have chicharito selectors that maybe have the best definition in the world.

    If we have a coach that priorize "sitters" instead the real contribution of a player....we are in front of a mourinho, pinto or mancini,.......that just blanme playersbecuase of their tactical incapicities
     
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  14. Cruzifero

    Cruzifero Member

    Aug 6, 2005
    Nu Jeru
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Borre has the skillset to be very important for the nt. As supporting striker next to Duvan would be ideal, if Queiroz is going to use him as a lone forward he might as well leave him in Argentina. But can definitely contribute like Teo did in his day.
     
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  15. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    we are in 2019.....we have teams that world cups and euros without a lone triker without being "9"..........

    actually i think that queiroz havent given the "fair" chances to duvan(copa america and these friendlies) and is related because he isnt so active without the ball out of attacking position and i see watched also that in atalanta, he only associates when the team is going to attack but not in the hame.........i think he prefers what muriel or roger would offer as 9.....is just hypothetical tough....but i think queiroz doesnt pamp duvan a lot of.....he is a very classic 9 and dont know if queiroz love that.
     
  16. J-Mezzy

    J-Mezzy Member+

    Oct 14, 2013
    Orlando
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    You are right but u r looking at how a coach should see things and not as they actually do.

    I think coaches are always looking for things to reaffirm what they believe and are stubborn at it.

    For example Zidane always liked Lucas Vazquez because of his running and effort. So he cod have 5 or 6 bad games in a row and all of that is ignored until he has a good game where he made an impact defensively and then Zidane could say...see...i told u so.

    In the case of James...coaches believe he doesn't fit in their schemes because he is an AM in line ups that dont use AMs and James could play in the midfield and run hard, press, defend, hustle....then come a game like PSGs where the midfield was overran...then they go see...james doesn't fit...we need more balance and bench him.

    Coaches like to be proven right, not wrong.

    So i dont know where Quieroz stands on Borre. If he likes his play making, he will say he adds a lot more than finishing..i like him.

    If he feels that he has doubts on him because of his finishing...he will say. I knew it. This guy os pecho frio.

    Either way. In that game, Borre reaffirmed what people think about him. Great playmaker with poor finishing. I feel that he hurt himself more than he helped himself based on what i think Queiroz likes...remember, he doesn't care too much for creative players
     
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  17. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    #592 pepinointer, Oct 10, 2019 at 11:45 AM
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019 at 11:51 AM
    you are mixing things:

    1. An studied coach(like quieroz is) dont have notion of pecho frio and dont make study of a plauyer skills regarding sitters, wont make a judgement of the contribution of a player if they have a sitter...............he is A COACH not a bully journalist or a hooligan that use that criteria and terms...........all coaches reafirmed when judge a forawrd is beyond definition.,.........at least they are montella or mancini.......ps: zidane isnt an studied coach.......

    2. Queiroz dont like "enganches" these talent players that because his position (midcamp where you win matches) can be uselless in tactical plane..........if borre contributes something in his teams is tactical work .............actually stefan medina and rogers is an example in how queiroz accepts talent in other positions but not playmakers..............this tendency of removed playmakers isnt new or invented by queiroz.....but is not agaisnt talent players is agisnt the position ..........there are other cases of ignorance like i colombia that think that fast players are talented..

    3, if it is true he is banning a player becuase definition we are in front of a very bad coach and we have to worry, of his notion of football.............and will be contradicted because he is the top scorer of argentinan league and of river.

    4. since september was roumoured the agreement between river and boca and the federations (colombian and argentinan)
     
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  18. J-Mezzy

    J-Mezzy Member+

    Oct 14, 2013
    Orlando
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I hope you are right and Borre is back because with Diaz, Roger, Muriel in the team, i see no need for Morelos. Borre is the only one with different characteristics.
     
  19. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    more than the presence of absence of players.........for me very worryfull that this coach really value forawrds based in sitters.....i dont think so is the case.........but this reasoning is of mediocre coaches like montella and obivoulsy of hoolignas and chirnguitos..
     
  20. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    From what I have seen at River I think this would probably be his best role too.
    I love what I have seen from him when he has played with Pratto over the last couple seasons. I wanted to see what he could do with Falcao in that "Teo" position but now it looks like it would have to be with Duvan.
    That said, I am not sure Queiroz will adjust hist tactics in that manner. Unless he plays him the the Morelos Position from the aforementioned Korea match as an experiment.
     
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  21. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    You have said yourself around here that a striker has to be scoring and in good form to be called up. Yes, it is not the only factor but it is a factor.

    Since last FIFA Date in September Santos Borre had not scored during the run of play until this past weekend.

    Another guy you really wanted to be called up and you seem agitated by being left off during September was Morelos. Now he has been called up and more than likely Santos Borre was the guy who had to go for him.
     
  22. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    For your info roger and muriel didnt score in this period......only have passed 4 matches..............that doesnt mean they arent in form....borre actually was as roger.

    Just as there was agreement with Madrid, it is very likely that there have been with the clubs of Argentina. as has happened before and was announced, only Queiroz begins to deny ....




    Recently I see that you are combining your preferences with those of queiroz. as if what you want is the same thing you have in mind and I think not.

    On my side I don't like many decisions and I don't like many aspects of his philosophy. Apart from discarding creatives, I also don't like his decision to rule out long-distance full backs like arias by more technical defense players like medina or tesillo, who don't use the entire band.

    Also The treatment he has given duvan is not very consistent with the moment of duvan. I think he does not like the classic 9s, if he put falcao in the cup it was related as falcao when we did not hit is associated with the midfield. Duvan more than anything is involved in the play when there is an attack position and I think that bothers Carlos Queiroz.
     
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  23. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    #598 HomietheClown, Oct 10, 2019 at 2:02 PM
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019 at 2:09 PM
    As I mentioned before Roger and Muriel are seen in a different way, They are not #9 and have not played as #9 within Colombian tactics this cycle. They are more on the wings and supporting striker.
    Borre has only been viewed as the target man when he came in during the September friendlies.

    Maybe there is some sort of agreement but that is a different discussion.
     
  24. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I am trying to figure things out and observing how the manager is using our players and also considering how he has used players in the past at other National teams.

    The fullback and Duvan discussion is for a different thread but I trust that our manager has a vision on what he best sees fit. It may not be my favorite style at all but I can appreciate that he is sticking to his philosophy and plan.
     
  25. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    This is what I mean, do not combine your preferences or visions with queiroz. He doesn't think the same to you and less to your wishes..

    Seeing the tactical rigor of queiroz, I doubt that he decides his strikers in relation to his scoring frequency in the 3 last games...as he discarded that from duvan in copa.
     

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