[R] NCAA Final

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by nsa, Dec 7, 2008.

  1. Smashfoot

    Smashfoot New Member

    Feb 25, 2005
    Who can put the ball in the back of the net? That's who I'm chosing.
     
  2. bayscr

    bayscr New Member

    Sep 18, 2008
    Santa Clara

    Here's a clip of the highlights:

    The sequence for the winning goal begins at 2:06 of the video when Tobin Heath passes the ball from just in front of the penalty arc to her left to Casey Nogueira just out front and not quite to the corner of the penalty box. What follows is quite obviously a planned set play which once again demonstrates the genius of Anson Dorrance, who thinks and prepares on a level previously unseen in the wide world of sports. When the defender addresses Nogueira, Nogueira feints right and as soon as the hapless defender bites Nogueira breaks back left towards the endline and pulls the trigger at the exact point where (as you can see by the shadows on the ground) a shot will be on goal and come at the goalie from out of the sun. Dorrnace had consulted with UNC's CEMPD and had them develop a physics parameterization meteorology model to tell him exactly when and from where Nogueira would be able to use the position of the sun to neutralize the goalie and guarantee a score. Of course, while CEMPD (with some fine tuning based on the shadows) could tell Nogueira from where to pull the trigger and even the vertical angle needed, it was Nogueira who had to shoot the ball just over the goalie but under the crossbar. What other coach operates on such an advanced level? And when even the best players are lucky to get wide open shots on goal, who but Nogueira would have executed so flawlessly. We are priveleged to live in a time when gods walk the earth.
     
  3. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    LOL!!! Awesome!
     
  4. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I know, I know. Every UNC player throughout history has exemplified fair play and sportsmanship and none of them have ever cried after a loss.
     
  5. GLBryan

    GLBryan Member

    Oct 30, 2004
    Georgia
    Point taken, but I will chime in that it does seem to be a pattern with ND. Sunday was not the first press conference I've sat in with Waldrum where I've left with a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth. Last year after the loss to FSU he came in complaining about the officiating and the same this year. He didn't really give any congratulations or credit to UNC for the win. There is a place to address those issues but I don't think it is a great example to your players to air it out there and not acknowledge your opponent. Hanks was more gracious than Randy but did go off about the non-call after he gave her the okay to do so. In my mind, the coach sets the tone for that stuff. If he does it, then the players think its okay for them. Same with club kids. When the coaches and parents are screaming at the refs like maniacs, the kids pick up the disrespect. I'll give Hanks a pass on it. As I said, she was more gracious and she had just seen her college career come to a close with no national title. I expect a little more from the head coach of a program like ND's.
     
  6. Morris20

    Morris20 Member

    Jul 4, 2000
    Upper 90 of nowhere
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    I've tried to think of a UNC athlete or coach blaming the officiating to the extent Waldrum/Hanks did after an NCAA final (and obviously they've played in a few of these in more than just women's soccer). Not only does nothing come to mind, I wouldn't think someone who did would be around the next year. I'm trying to imagine Dean Smith (or a Tar Heel player) acting that way after one of the 10? final fours (it was a lot anyway) where they came up short before they finally won it, but I can't.

    Honestly, I just think it's a bad approach. Instead of going back to work saying "we can do more and take it into our hands next season" you're kind of forfeiting control over your own destiny. Not a great psychological place to be IM(NS)HO.
     
  7. Iron Man

    Iron Man New Member

    Oct 7, 2008
    Yes, it was a foul, but it was back at least 3 yards. Don't know if Nogueira makes it three yards back. And the PK at the last 6 seconds was an awful nocall. The blatant offsides call in the first half with the lineman's flag down makes one think this ref was intimidated/in awe of UNC. Too bad for the game.
     
  8. UNC4EVER

    UNC4EVER Member

    Sep 27, 2007
    Anyone just watch the NCAA men's final? :eek: I'm an obvious Heels fan, but Oh-my-God, how many "hopeful balls" can one team launch? The men's side today made the women look like possession pros. The Terps clearly deserved to win, but not because they played attractive soccer...
    Maybe the ACC gals could offer a clinic? ;)
     
  9. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Sadly, with the best players turning pro, or at least turning pro early, that is the state of the Men's game in college.

    The goal sequence was pretty nice, and UNC did have a couple of very nice chances they didn't convert, but other than that, it was pretty ugly.

    The Terps did start some pretty nice ball control for a few minutes after the goal, but then went away from that in favor of more punting.

    If the women's teams I watch played like that, I would stop watching.
     
  10. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Agree.
     
  11. G Clinton

    G Clinton New Member

    Sep 29, 2005
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Why can't the NCAA spring a little cash to bring in one of those good refs that we saw at the U-20s WC. They live in soccer playing nations and are far superior to the average college ref. They are good with working as a team with the AR's, are able to distinguish real fouls from diving, and use the laws of the game to promote fairness in the match.

    I think the final could have used more of factors two and three.
     
  12. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    I think the NCAA did that. George Vergara is a FIFA ref who has refereed world cup qualifiers.
    http://ussoccer.com/articles/viewArticle.jsp_63216.html


    He was apparently the first ref from the mtro DC - Virginia area to get a FIFA rating (1999)

    http://www.vadcsoccerref.com/downloads/Vol2Issue2.pdf


    He must be a somewhat junior one, though, because most MLS metions of him are as a 4th official.
    http://web.mlsnet.com/search.do?query=George+Vergara&x=8&y=9&ccontext=mls&cid=mls



    I think the problem is actually the opposite of what you assume. I've noticed that when FIFA refs do college games, especially women's college games, they swallow their whistles. They are used to seeing contact at a higher level of intensity, and they just don't believe that some fouls warrant calls.

    I have no explanation for the off sides calls.


    There are very few officials I have seen who I think can call the game well at several levels. Sandra Hunt was one, too bad she retired.
     
  13. G Clinton

    G Clinton New Member

    Sep 29, 2005
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    CW thanks for the informed response. I think you have identified that the key to getting good reffing for the college women is getting one with experience 1. Reffing women's games and 2. Reffing at the U-22 level. I know at the U-20 WC the fifa refs are in training/evaluation during the entire tournament. The ones that score well are picked to do higher and higher level games as the tournament progresses so that by the championship game you have a pool of referees who are well versed in reffering the appropriate level and sex that are involved. You aren't pulling refs out cold from MLS or international play. It is almost a reffing tournament within the overall soccer tournament.
     
  14. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Vergara has not refereed any World Cup Qualifiers. He is a linesman at the MLS and FIFA level.

    In fact, Sunday was was the first time I have ever seen Vergara run center.
     
  15. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    That doesn't mean he hasn't done it. C'mon, do you really think FIFA would send the most experienced referees in the world to the NCAA's on the same weekend they were doing a World Cup finals in Chile, a major event in Japan, and internationals in California? Their own events would surely take precedence. Besides, I doubt that the NCAA would get people from out of the country.

    I thought I made it clear what his refing experience was with the links I provided. He was an AR during the qualifiers I mentioned, and I made the point that he is mostly mentioned as a #4 in the MLS

    He's been doing international matches since at least 1998, as I found a link that shows him being an AR in a game Sandra Hunt refereed for the WWC qualifier games.


    Nevertheless, he is a FIFA rated ref, though apparently only since 2006.
    Before that, he made the FIFA Assistant Referee Honor roll from 1999 to 2005, which made him the best rated assistant referee from his region and on the FIFA panel, so presumably he has at least read law 11. That's what makes his offsides calls all the more puzzling. (You must retire from the AR panel at 45, which he did in 2006)

    FIFA AR listings (search on vergara)

    In fact, he was this year named as the State referee administrator for the VA-DC region, which makes him in charge of FIFA ref assignments from that region.

    http://www.vadcsoccerref.com/SRCChairman/index_E.html

    So I don't think you can say he had no experience in the game. Quite the contrary, I think the NCAA did what you would expect, and got refs that had an international rating. I'll admit he has junior experience in that role, but you will have to admit that's what you would expect before he was sent in to do major international matches. The NCAA didn't get people with no FIFA experience.

    More experience doesn't guarantee a perfect performance, either. At least he didn't give anyone three yellows.

    The two assistants that were with him also have FIFA ratings.
     
  16. Craig P

    Craig P BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 26, 1999
    Eastern MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He is not on the U.S. FIFA list right now. He may have been in the past.

    http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/developing/refereeing/association=usa/peoplekind=ref.html

    If he's an AR by trade, that makes the choice of putting him in the middle and Sandra Serafini (one of the U.S.'s three FIFA women's centers) all the more puzzling.
     
  17. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    yes, that's true. I think Sandra was the AR on the sideline that kept her flag down on one of the offsides calls he made. I agree it's puzzling. But it still seems he is a FIFA rated ref at the moment - probably in training for a "real" FIFA event. I confess I don't know all that much about the referee situation back East.

    I was just pointing out that the NCAA didn't drag some guy out of High school reffing. They at least made an effort to get someone appropriate to the task. I totally agree that the choice may not have worked out for the best. Even if he's not experienced in the Middle, he should have known how to go about making an Offsides call, don't you think?
     
  18. johndaly

    johndaly New Member

    Oct 12, 2006
    As a college coach I have seen George Vergara referee many times and consider him to be one of the best, if the not the best, referee(s) in the entire eastern area. He is firm but fair and is a very good judge of the game. Is he infallible? No, but who is?
     
  19. firefanman

    firefanman New Member

    Oct 31, 2007
    Thanks for the clips to see the second goal! Now I want to see this play at the end of the game which the highlight clip does not have. My Dvr missed last few minutes of game. Anyone have last few minutes or suggestions on how to get full tape of game?

    Thanks again,
    Firefanman
     

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