Quebec City???

Discussion in 'Ice Hockey' started by msilverstein47, Sep 12, 2011.

  1. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    I've been following this rabidly on the HF Boards since talk started surfacing of the Nords returning. That last link got torn to shreds there.

    "No owner" - Incorrect, billionaire Pierre Karl Peladeau wants the Coyotes and has apparently been in talks with the NHL.

    "No clear vision for a new rink" - Incorrect, the funding is already in place, with the province and the city each committing a huge amount of money and PKP's enormous media company Quebecor already having signed the naming rights.

    "Little chance Quebec will have all those details ironed out by the spring" - Incorrect, everything is in place. The Mayor of Quebec said within the last week or so that the city is willing to spend a few million to upgrade Le Colisée as a temporary venue until the new arena gets built. That would be 15k seats sold out for the next three years at a much higher price per seat than in Phoenix until the new arena is finished.

    The consensus among those who are following this closely is that the Coyotes are currently spending their last season in Phoenix unless they get sold to a group that wants to keep them there, as the city of Glendale will not subsidize them for another year and the league will not be willing to take those losses. The new owner would also have to be willing to incur tens of millions in losses per season for at least the first few seasons if he kept them in Glendale. If they move, the candidates being discussed are:

    QC - details above
    KC - new arena, no prospective owner. Arena makes lots of money even without a long-term tenant.
    Seattle - no arena, no owner
    Portland - arena, no owner
    Houston - arena, no owner

    The sale of the Leafs and the announcement that an arena will be built in Markham throws a wrench into the works, but as yet there is still no buzz of relocation to Toronto for the coming season. On the contrary, all the buzz (including from the Toronto media) is they're moving to Quebec City.

    If you're interested, check out the thread at the HF Boards for all these details:

    http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=980161&page=23
     
  2. Fox Terrier

    Fox Terrier Red Card

    Dec 3, 2011
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Glasgow Rangers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    You're right KHL does not impact popularity. They impact their business.
     
  3. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    How so?
     
  4. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    I certainly think the Coyotes are done in Arizona. They've poisoned the well so to speak already and I doubt anybody wants them.

    Thanks for the heads up and we'll see what happens. I still wouldn't bet against sheer greed and seeing a 2nd Toronto team which would line the NHL owners pockets with a $50 million each.
     
  5. Fox Terrier

    Fox Terrier Red Card

    Dec 3, 2011
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Glasgow Rangers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    I'm not trying to argue. Look at the Flyers... to see a player like Shelley in the NHL is exactly what I'm saying about the KHL. The NHL had to replace russian players & are using Shelley as one of many. Used to be NHL had a free access to russian players. Now NHL has to buy its own players from here & the talent pool is depleted. Sure NHL has its few russian stars but that is the cream at the top. Russia produces alot of average players NHL has no interest in. But their disappearance has caused NHL to use the Shelleys instead. Seeing Shelley fight Chara was an embarrassment to the NHL. If you think of what top russian players are worth did NHL pay anything to get them?
     
  6. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    Players like Jody Shelley (who is probably only in Philly's lineup right now because of injuries), aka goons, have been in the NHL long before the KHL ever existed. I certainly do not argue against the fact that the KHL has drawn away the mid range Russian player and to some extent the lower range of Czech and some European players. So yes, one doesn't see many 3rd or 4th line Russian players anymore. But I don't think that really affects the NHL's business much. Fans aren't going to stop coming because Patrick Thoresen isn't on the Flyers bench, and many times the so called goons actually are quite popular among the fans.

    I don't think the KHL has really affected the NHL's bottom line. It certainly has affected the bottom line of Russian draft prospects. NHL teams are scared to draft Russians too high now because of the fear they might flee to the KHL at any given opportunity. So what you have is a player like Vladimir Tarasenko, who based on talent alone probably rivals Taylor Hall, going 16th instead of in the top two. Or a player like Nikita Kucherov who would be a first rounder based on talent alone, going in the 3rd round. That means a lower entry level deal, less money and ironically a bit less incentive, financially at least, to move to North America.
     
  7. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    Oh yeah, I'm not betting on anything. I don't want to get my hopes up too much for QC and have them dashed. I think if the Coyotes were somehow to survive for a couple more years in Glendale and then move, Quebec would be S.O.L. and other markets like Houston, Portland or even KC (and definitely Toronto) might step up... but it seems like right now QC is the only market with all its ducks in a row, which is the reason Winnipeg has a team right now.
     
  8. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    Yep I agree. Winnipeg had a stadium, (albeit a small one but still better than the Pepsi Coliseum, which is where the Nordiques fled from!) and a deep pocketed ownership group. All the questions about long term viability that exist for Winnipeg, it's small, corporate support is questionable, are the same for Quebec. Quebec needs a clear vision, a clear foolproof plan for the new stadium, a strong committed unquestioned ownership group to overcome those question marks. Toronto just needed the pension plan out of the way and a new building. I could just as easily see this play out....

    Phoenix ----> Quebec

    Expansion in Toronto $1 billion expansion fee (exaggeration? maybe, but it will be a huge expansion fee)

    then the question mark is where does the 32nd team go? I think that's where you start to look at Seattle, Kansas City, Portland, Houston etc. Just looking at the map I'd think the league might want a presence in the Northwest US. All things being equal of course with stadiums and ownership groups. Unfortunately the Canucks don't really translate well across the border and their impact is minimal. Up until a few years ago you would only be able to see the Canucks on TV in washington if they happened to be on Versus or something, or the playoffs. Now they have like 25 odd games on CSN, which isn't even the main local sports network.
     
  9. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    Might even work the other way round: if Seattle were to get a team, they might get quite a few fans from BC who can't get tickets for the Canucks.
     
  10. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    We could call that the Buffalo Sabres affect.
     
  11. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    Looks like we're just a few weeks away from an announcement on the Coyotes. Quebec announced on Sunday that the new arena is officially on the way... there is so much smoke here that it's impossible to believe there's no fire. If the Nordiques don't return to Quebec City this summer I'll be unbelievably disappointed, because everything is looking that way.
     
  12. Forza_Totti

    Forza_Totti Member

    Oct 16, 2006
    Toronto
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    They're saying either Que or Seattle. Neither have a stadium as of today and if PHX were sold, that they would have to play at a temp location.
     
  13. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    Quebec at least have a stadium coming and it would be an NHL stadium.

    Seattle's stadium was going to be an NBA stadium where the NHL was a tenant. That's a losing money proposition.

    The only thing I see against Quebec is the NHL maybe wanting a full expansion fee. I'd assume they'll do another $100 million plus relocation fee but an expansion in Quebec would mean big money for the owners.
     
  14. ottawasportsfan

    Mar 18, 2005
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    I really can't see the league expanding any time soon there is to many teams not doing great.
     
  15. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    Did you notice the previous realignment scenario?

    8 teams
    8 teams
    7 teams
    7 teams

    :)


    Expansion teams make the league free money and they'd be put in places that are basically guaranteed to make giant revenue. Well Quebec might not be giant, but Toronto 2.0 would.


    Once Phoenix is gone there are only a couple franchises which are questionable going forward. Florida and the Islanders.
     
  16. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    I think it's possible there'll be expansion in the medium term (maybe once the economy improves a bit and a few teams stabilize their financial situations), but it looks like the league has a few weeks to make (announce) a decision on the Coyotes. If they are leaving - and it looks like they are, barring another 25 million subsidy from the CoG - then you can bet the decision has already been made as to where they are going. They can't wait until the Coyotes' season is done and then start negotiating with people, because there isn't enough time for that.

    My guess is the other owners are sick of adventures like what happened in Phoenix. QC is a slam dunk, and they're ready to go right now. I will eat my hat if the league doesn't announce Coyotes -> Quebec City within just a couple of days of their season ending.*


    * Unless the CoG really does cough up another 25 million beans against all better judgement.
     
  17. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    What about Columbus?

    My understanding is that Florida is a non-issue because a) they have a lease that cannot be broken under pain of death and b) their owners make money with the arena overall, so it isn't a problem that the team itself might not be profitable.
     
  18. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    Quebec city officials and people connected to the issue are eerily silent on the issue. If anybody remembers Winnipeg, that's exactly what happened there. True North went silent months before the issue was resolved.

    The only other realistic option is Kansas City, but I don't think the league is looking for an adventure.
     
  19. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    Columbus has an operating income of -7million, which isn't all that different than Carolina, Tampa or San Jose. Revenue is about the same as Florida, St. Louis or Carolina. The only question is can they ever put a decent team out? The team had a big season ticket sale jump this year because fans actually believed they had a chance to win games this year.

    Phoenix is spoiled as a market. The team is a legit contender (maybe no stanley cup, but playoffs) on a cap floor budget. ......and the stadium is empty because fans just don't believe the team will be there anymore.

    Columbus isn't the same boat. They have apparently renegotiated their lease with the city which was the main reason for them losing money.


    Phoenix is running an annual -20 million deficit. Which is more than double any other team.
     
  20. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    - Yep... apart from the arena announcement last Sunday (which apparently pissed Bettmann off), they've gone into confidentiality mode. That cannot be a bad thing.

    - I understand Kansas City isn't even looking for that particular adventure, as the mayor believes the arena can make more money without an anchor tenant!
     
  21. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    It's not a bad thing if you want a team in Quebec no.


    I didn't know that about KC. I only threw their name out because of that arena.

    Seattle isn't a short term option because of several reasons. Key Arena would be a horrible place, even in the short term to play hockey. The basketball arena deal with the NBA would be a money loser.
     
  22. ottawasportsfan

    Mar 18, 2005
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    Say the league expands but then you have a few teams in serious trouble but there is now where to move due to the expanson then what?
     
  23. ottawasportsfan

    Mar 18, 2005
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    Yes they have a hard lease but they could fold i don't think that would happen short term long term who know anything can happen there are very few teams i would say 100% solid long term.
     
  24. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    I think it's a bit exaggerated to say there are a few teams in serious trouble.
     
  25. Petersontj

    Petersontj Member

    Jul 24, 2011
    NYC
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Quebec Devils???

    Yes, Florida is safe unless they REALLY start to tank.

    Columbus is also safe: the team performs well as far as attendance and merchandising apparently.
     

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