"Put a lid on it!": Wizards Stadium Thread v.08.03

Don't think we'd be allowed to do terracing (but I don't know building codes and stuff for stadiums). And I know there are people that are against it. Mark I believe, is one of them.

 

very good. i was hoping my assumption was low.

 

And for good reason... 4/15/89 comes to mind... *sighs*

 

Terracing would be a good idea. I actually like the section with the bar stools and tables at CAB. Personally I think that would have been a good place to put the Cauldron if was modifide a bit. Would love to see terraced area with the occassional bar style table behind where folks would stand (place to put drums, set streamers out for everyone pre-game, etc). This would eliminate the argument about folks standing on and damaging seats, and also open up the section to standing room seating..which would likely lead to increased capacity. The major thing about an "open" section like this is that the railings between each section would give more places to hang banners, mount flag poles,etc. With a bit of cooperation and some ground rules between secruity, ownership, and the cauldron leadership the section could be pretty well turned over to the cauldron to do what they want with it.

As for the number of hand sitters in the cauldron, to me this is just proof that the cauldron adds to the draw for casual fans. It seems like sitting in or near the cauldron adds to the experience for many fans, so they buy up the seats around that section. If I owned the team, hand sitter seating around the cauldron would cost $5.00 extra because of the added value to the game experience. Getting the hand sitters involved is the trick. Maybe it is time to pass out flyers with words to the COMMON cauldron songs again. I recall getting a sheet with chants/songs back at Arrowhead only to find that only about half of the most common were on the sheet! Maybe focus on just one chant per game, and specify when it will happen (i.e. "We are KC Wiz" to start game and at start of 2nd half, then "Bastard Referee" if when a card is shown to KC player at the next game). Also, I love what the sudukas bring but more simple english language chants/songs would help. I have learned most of the spanish chants but I think that is asking a bit much of the hand sitters. I would like to point out that the Cauldron folks do work their butts off to include new folks, and people like szazzy, ben, and sean have turned me and my tag alongs into cauldronites instead of hand sitters.

 

WRONG!!!

You could easily do a handrailed terrace at mid-field... from the field all the up/back. Place it on the side that faces (looks into) the sun. Make it a "V" shape with the narrow spot at field level... widening at it goes up/back. That would lessen the impact on the seated fans next to the terrace (sight lines).

As that mid-field section fills, the seat near that section could be used to expand the section.

Lots of TV coverage as well.

 

T'is not a valid reason against terracing per se. There were definite design problems associated with that tragedy. Those problems have been thoroughly identified. A terrace design merely needs to address and solve those problems. A task that is indeed doable. Make it a high design priority, and K.C.'s design can become the new "standard" for future football stadium construction.

 

"Camelback"

 

Agree - it would need a great deal of attention and careful thought to be accomplished correctly and successfully. I think it _could_ be done... and if it were to be done I think it would not only set KC significantly apart from the rest of the league but also be a great tool for attracting potential crazies and diehards into the fold.

I'm not overly optimistic that we'll see it happen, but I do hope that it has been considered to an extent... and if it hasn't then, well, give us all a good reason to have waited this long for the plans.

 

After some more thought, I'm coming to the conclusion that putting seats in a standing area in the first place is patently ridiculous and a waste of money. We aren't going to use them, except that some people might stand on them (dangerous and destructive).

I maintain that if we are going to plan on standing in the Cauldron (no question, we are), knee-high seat backs are actually more of a hazard than none at all and a waist-high rail in their place. Furthermore, to anybody who needs more convincing, I have two words: built-in cupholders.

Incidentally, I found a rather interesting opinion piece on this very subject (incl. thoughts on Hillsborough).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2007/aug/12/sport.obsmagspecial6

 

if i'm not mistaken, the last time i brought this up, sam confirmed that it had been considered. that was a significant amount of time ago, though, and i'm sure a lot of things have been "considered."

 

All those who haven't ventured into the MLS Expansion Thread on Stadiums- https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=627183&highlight=terrace+seating

 

Liberty Stadium from the above thread is NICE.

http://www.liberty-stadium.com/liber...troduction.php

Nice size, nice lid, just flat out nice. I particularly like the pattern having different colored seats makes. Would be nice to have the Cauldron have differen colored seats than the rest of Hillcrest

 

Corrected link:
http://www.liberty-stadium.com/liberty_stadium_introduction.php

It's just OK for me. I dunno, all these modern "bowl" stadia, like many of the remodels in Germany for the World Cup, seem kind of bland to me. I prefer the old-timey stadiums that have the four seperate stands, like the Hearts stadium referred to earlier.

 

I am all for have terracing but remember I would like to see USMNT games or even a WCQ here after the park is open. Fifa laws forbid terracing during these game. Like in Dortmund at the Signal Iduna Park. Where there are to different capacities depending on what type of game is being played there. It has a league capacity of 80,708 (standing and seated), and an international capacity of 65,718 (officially seats only).

 

Yes the atmosphere at these newer "bowl" grounds just don't have the feel as the older, more intimate 4 sided grounds.

 

Sometime last year I saw a picture floating around of collapsible terrace seats that folded down and during normal league served as standing areas, I searched for it earlier but was unable to find it. At the time I thought of it as an interesting compromise to the terrace/all seater debate. Since the "seats" were rarely used they were made of some metal product but looked very durable and functional.

 

Exactly, or you can bring in rows of seats and temporarily install them on an as-needed basis and then remove them for the terracing.

 

I'm going to make a general point here that goes with what Matthias has said ... some of us sit at midfield higher up so we can watch the game develop. There are certain expectations that come from that: standing all game isn't polite, there are little ears around so some things ("Wings of a Sparrow" and "Who's Your Daddy") aren't appropriate, and cursing is not acceptable.

I'm shocked that on an Internet social site the group of people who aren't in the Cauldron are broadly tarred and feathered as "hand-sitters". Some of us just have to be a little more creative as to not offend the delicate sensibilities of the surrounding attendees eating their prawn sandwiches. I mean, they might drop the sandwich on the ground, or God forbid, into their white zinfandel.

For my two cents, there are three things that would get other people around us involved in the game. One of these things is in the control of OnGoal as the new stadium design is considered. One is the joint responsibility of all the supporters groups and OnGoal, and one is primarily the responsibility the fans.

1) Acoustics are a function of how OnGoal designs the stadium and a function of where OnGoal locates the Cauldron. In this case, the trade-offs are between covered being better than not covered (trapping and directing sound) but the end being better than sideline (more people in front of the Cauldron ... it's difficult to project your voice behind you). Obviously the ideal would be a covered end.

2) Familiarity with the rituals, song, and experience is essential. Wings of a Sparrow, the Cauldron, the Crusaders, the Blue Card Execs, and OnGoal need to really support Adam Meloan in both developing what that experience is and then providing the necessary resources to introduce and educate first-time attendees to the "Wizards' Experience" and provide tools to help returning attendees become more adept at carrying out the rituals, song, and experience.

3) Game day experience needs to be something in which the majority of fans are comfortable participating. I'm looking right at you, frequent users of highly audible profanity and those who revel too much in obscenity, especially in the lyrics to "Who's Your Daddy?" and "Wings of a Sparrow". I think the choice is clear - to be a handful of voices singing alone, because of either the words being used or not being inclusive, or to be part of 18,500 singing together. It's going to work both ways ... on one extreme there are going to be people who are going to object to expressions of support that are laced with profanity or obscenity. On the other hand, I think every true Wizards fan objected to the 'Zard Meister. A happy medium is essential for getting the largest number of people involved.

 

I believe in psychology circles they call this an "approach/avoidance conflict".

A. I think you are wrong about only a handful of people singing "WoaS", in fact I know you're wrong about that. It's one of the few songs that actually has caught on with some casual fans; I will venture the only song that gets more participation is "Oh, KC Wiz". I credit that to the song being both simple and amusing. Count me as one of the loudest.

B. I also know that the use of @$$, $h!t- and b@st@rd$ in the song does offend a fair segment of the crowd as well, mostly parents (although there are a few parents who sing it as loudly as any Cauldronite). Their patronage speaks as loudly as anyone else's.

Now if we had an Easy button like on the commercial, we would come up with 10 new can't-miss chants overnight and we could afford to take WoaS out of our repertoire. We don't, so there's a tough decision to make, and frankly I got nuthin' other than making up some simple lyrics to a simple tune that has a chance to catch on and replace WoaS. What's the consensus? Drop the song? Have the FO figure out a strategy to encourage the seating of small children as far away from the Cauldron as possible? Foul language disclaimer written on the tickets so everyone can see it?

 

When I was in reserved seating I definitely wasn't a hand-sitter I was up, yelling at the ref far too often to be considered that. I think I awed a few kids and scared a few others... but as passionate as I get with that... I have a hard time being the one person in the vicinity that is singing/chanting/etc. Part of it is not being confident/sure of myself enough, with the other part being that I hate hearing myself do that all alone - I feel my singing is far from the best in the world and prefer to be in situations where I can't hear how poorly I'm doing

Do we need to watch ourselves from time to time? Yes... but in the same respects, I think it's best if we don't let the easily offended parent portion of the fan base get it too much in their head that this will be that much different than any other sporting event. People curse and swear at sporting events.. it's going to happen. Only thing I can see to prevent it from being _as_ offensive is to create a family-only section or something.

 

Agree completely, and right now we have a pretty good balance in my opinion, we've cut down on our use of organized cursing, except when a few people decide to go and start something with the F'Bomb in it.

 

I'll split out some of the feedback I've been given and give my thoughts tonight after the boys go to bed. Although, the points about decorum may need to be moved to a different thread so we can keep this focused on the stadium.

As far as I'm concerned, the best result would be a steeply raked seating area that starts as close to the field as possible. An interesting idea - if Dave F. hasn't thought about it already - would be to have areas like the Royals dugout suites that have visibility over the dasherboards but are located under the stands proper.

Ideally I'd like a roof all around the stadium, but I'd like to think that there could be a compromise ... use permanent roofing over the long ends of the stadium and then use retractable roofing over the ends where the supports could be incorporated into an expansion later - maybe holding a second level on the ends?.

 

I never meant to imply that there were only a handful of people singing WoaS; I meant to imply that those who are singing it either to get some form of gratuitous, sophomoric thrill out of using dirty words or simply because they know it shocks the brie and wine crowd aren't doing the overall Wizards' customer experience any favors.

I believe that WoaS can be a part of a Cauldron member's game-day experience. However, if we're talking about the overall customer experience for everyone of the 18.5K seats at Hillcrest Road, I don't think it adds a lot.

I do think that as supporters of the Wizards there is both talent and skill out there to come up with things that are uniquely Kansas City. The problem is that WoaS isn't unique; I bet every well organized supporters' group in MLS does it. It also contains lyrics that other supporters may be offensive.

My feeling is when talking about a Wizards' customer experience, there should be things that everyone in blue identifies with and thinks are superior to anyone else's ritual, chant, song, etc. - think Boomer Sooner for our friends from Norman, the cadets doing pushups when Texas A&M scores, the Rock Chalk Chant, Hook'em Horns ... and that we aren't going to get there recycling stuff from other continents.

In our family the kids do the standing, but then Mrs. Rhymeorreason and I watch the game as students of the game. We sing when we pick up on stuff from the Cauldron that's appropriate. And I revel in the fact that people who aren't used to it look at me when I yell at the refs or players, and people who understand what I'm saying are amused. When I'm using volume, I don't rely on obscenity or profanity; I use those under my breath for instances like our left back slipping and allowing a goal to be scored.

I believe every parent has the understanding that this is a sporting event, and there may be fans using foul language to express themselves.

Not being part of the Cauldron, it's a little unclear to me if the Cauldron wants to be the leaders of vocalization in the stadium or if it wants to do its own thing. Good leadership implies care for everyone following ... which feeds back into whether things need to acceptable to 20% of the fans or 80% of the fans.