Puerto Rico

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by American Brummie, Sep 24, 2017.

  1. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I never have faith in the bureaucracy.

    I think Long and the other FEMA officials have done better than expected with what has been thrown at them in a short period.

    Now they should continue their efforts but also take a look at what was a worst-case senario and adjust their methods and planning.
     
  2. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While I agree they need to adjust, this is not a worst-case scenario. This is the tip of the melting iceberg.
     
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  3. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was worst case to this point.

    I don't imagine FEMA has a plan in place for the eventual eruption of the supervolcano under Yosemite, either.
     
  4. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Veeeeery different things. That supervolcano is millennia away. Climate change is here. No more need to wait.
     
  5. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire

    It's actually Yellowstone. If it was Yosemite, I'd be cheering for it, what with the relative proximity of the L.A. Galaxy,
     
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  6. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yup. Got my Y national parks confused
     
  7. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe. Do we really know that?
     
  8. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes we do. Alaskan villages are evacuating. Sea levels in California are pushing the beach back every year. The hottest year on record broken every year since we invaded Iraq. More stats if you want them.
     
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  9. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I get the global warming. What we don't know is when Yellowstone is going to blow.
     
  10. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Okay, I really thought you'd understand by now...

    This is basic disaster recovery. Plan for the worst case scenario even if it is unlikely to occur.

    To give you an example from a personal experience. Growing up in metro LA, my house was on a hill backed up against an area of probably about 2 sq miles which was undeveloped. Being in LA, we knew that fire was a possibility and we thought about it. First thing we did (it was already done) was plant Jade (a good fire resistant plant/bush). But we then mapped out what to do if a fire occurred. We lived on a cul de sac, and knew that there would be a bottle neck when the panic ensued. So we wanted to beat that, assuming that most people would look at the disaster rather than act immediate. So we developed a check list of items to take, and how to take them (clothes in the clothes hamper, cats in their carrying cases, important papers in the portable lock box, etc). It was the boy scout motto, even if we thought we'd never put it into action. We also talked about it often, and modified things as well. We never did a drill, but we spent enough time going to and from the car to have an idea of how quickly we could pack things. So we got our list down to 15 items each of us (mom and I) was responsible for. Mostly we joked about it when the earthquakes would occur, but nothing happened...until one Thanksgiving. It was a windy day, dry time of the year, and there was a major fire about 6 miles away (it was around one of my running loops at that time). So the smoke we smelled was initially blown off as from the major fire...until we saw the smoke between the trees in that undeveloped area.

    So we put the check list into action. I was on my 5th or 6th item when I stopped to take a look, and saw the smoke getting thicker. And all the neighbors were out looking at the fire and looking at us strangely.

    I realized at that point we had not put down "call 911," so I asked a neighbor, who said he had. And he asked what we were doing. I told him we were getting ready in case we had to evacuate. At that point, he told his partner and they both disappeared inside and returned a couple of minutes later with a couple of suitcases (when i was on my next item).

    In the end, nothing happened, and call 911 was put on the list as priority 1 on my list. But we were prepared, and ready to move, and communicated some of it to our neighbors.

    FEMA by definition should be as ready as we were (for the worst case scenario) - their job is disaster recovery. So somebody was not as prepared as they should have been. And just so you understand, there would be contingency plans written into the DR plan if the worst case scenario was not enough. The ball was dropped, not because FEMA has their hands full, but because the necessary extra support is not there which would have come from the very top - either the President blowing off Long, or Long not making the effort. My suspicion is the prior due to Long's previous experience.
     
  11. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Post reported.
     
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  12. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Navy is spending billions to modify their ports around the world due to rising sea levels. The port at Norfolk is already suffereing. That is a pretty good indicator, to me.
     
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  13. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sigh.

    Avaya Stadium to Yosemite Valley: 185 miles
    StubHub Center to Yosemite Valley: 325 miles

    I guess we're just collateral damage as y'all try to destroy LA. Although that's not a bad description for San Jose in general - both the team, and the city - collateral damage on the way from San Francisco to LA.
     
  14. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    http://www.newsweek.com/yellowstone...-erupt-heres-what-happens-when-it-does-684579

    Geologists know the risk of it exploding anytime near us is extraordinarily rare. We'll get tons of warning. The ground around Yellowstone will shift rapidly (feet per year rapidly), it will warm tremendously, dormant or new geysers will erupt decades before the explosion itself, and...the volcano itself might never erupt at all.
     
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  15. roadkit

    roadkit Greetings from the Fringe of Obscurity

    Jul 2, 2003
    Fornax Cluster
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #190 roadkit, Oct 16, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
    It's time to start moving people away from the coasts in flood-prone areas. It's time to create new housing standards to make homes more flood proof and make infrastructure more resilient to these sorts of extreme events. They have an opportunity to do that now in PR.

    Edit: What would it cost to put one of these in every home in PR rather than rebuild the entire power grid which was destroyed?

    Even if we took every effort possible to stem global warming, the likelihood these sorts of severe weather events will continue is very high, IMO.
     
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  16. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And FEMA needs a budget commensurate to the task ahead.

    Did I use commensurate correctly? Been holding it in my pocket and hoping to deploy it the right way.
     
  17. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You know, we did that for about 30 years, along with a lot of federal intervention into inland waterways to mitigate flooding. But then "local control" allowed that land to be redeveloped because no one could remember it flooding those areas.

    Are you ready to take on the homebuilder & development lobby?

    PR is far less about flooding and far more about structural resilience of dwellings accepting the added costs of building resilience into infrastructure and the cost of redundancies that may not be used in these decisionmaker's lifetimes.
     
  18. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_eruption_of_Mount_St._Helens

    We had two months before Mt. St. Helens erupted.

    I know there are obvious differences but I dont know if we know enough to say recent activity in Yellowstone isnt part of the ramp up. Or not.

    I found this to be interesting.

    https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/volcanoes/yellowstone/faqs_misconceptions.html
     
  19. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    See post #184.

    I am not a climate change denier, don't try to paint me as such.
     
  20. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    St. Helens' lack of warning was, if I recall my 1990s substitute-teacher day videos correctly, largely due to budget cuts. Yellowstone researchers have got oodles and boodles of money.
     
  21. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    If we only wanted to, we could battle wealth inequality and lack of meaningful employment by mobilizing our human potential to fight climate change. I'm thinking one million jobs to prep for climate change. The cost would be offset by future savings when sea waters rise and hurricanes hit, for example, not to mention all the consumer spending that those job holders would create.
     
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  22. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was not going for that, and looks like I quoted the wrong post. I was getting at the idea that the Navy has already accepted that the seas/oceans will rise (I forget when they started using that idea, but I think it was in the 1990s). The idea is that "worse case" to this point is not going to be acceptable when Florida gets hit with a hurricane with 200mph + sustained winds. Based on the response to PR, I suspect that FEMA does not have a plan for that - or at least an active, updated plan.
     
  23. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I bet they do, and it's just mass evacuations.
     
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  24. roadkit

    roadkit Greetings from the Fringe of Obscurity

    Jul 2, 2003
    Fornax Cluster
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If we did away with a federal flood insurance program that prohibited the use of funds to rebuild structures that had already been rebuilt with flood insurance money, that would be a start.

    I realize PR is a different situation, but we need to think differently about how we respond and rebuild after situations like this. Lots of structures need to be rebuilt, but also the power grid, roads, and water systems. If we expect a disaster like this to happen again, maybe we should think about how we can mitigate the consequences.
     
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  25. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    Also invest in pony farm sector
     
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